@NoahWard I'm sure you know how many people have been non stop crying the most pure salt imaginable for these weapons and honestly I kinda understand where they are coming from which is why I have set out on a journey of finding the balance for the weapons. Currently the dps of the weapons is 380/12.5m - 279/100 *auto cannon* and 352.8/12.5m - 259/100m *ace dakka* I started crunching numbers for the 12.5 meter range and the rpm than I moved on to the damage at 100m these are keeping as close to the current dps as possible at those ranges. The damage scaling would be the same as it currently is between those ranges just the damage per hit would be a bit lower with the rpm being higher without being nearly as fast as a hb but not as slow as now. Auto cannon 80/12.5 - 58.73/100m 285 rpm Ace dakka 70/12.5 - 51.75/100m 300 rpm The heat is currently 5.83 on both weapons and taking in the default damage before overheating the heat would need to be dropped to 3.5 per shot *I cut it down due to the long number* but the weapons would have the same damage potential before overheating as they do right now on live. *Special case* Heat per shot on Abadons grace would need to be lowered from 5 to 2.75 Oh boy now on to the harder to balance one which is the kannon.... Currently I honestly feel as if the kannon is a little to good vs infantry but at the same time it's so good vs vehicles that it's actually better to use it than the zzap kannon as you can use it vs both to equal effect. My suggestion it to retool the Kannon to deal drastically lower damage to vehicles to make the zzap the prime time AV weapon while at the same time keeping it effective vs infantry so that it's more of a long range anti infantry weapon. First lets start with the frag shot... Honestly I'm 100% fine with how it functions I only have 1 suggest... Allow the frag to detonate on impact of a player... Friendly or foe doesn't matter this would be a QOL change I'm sure all the boys would welcome.. Now on to the Shell shot which currently is a little to much... It can be fired once per 4.5 seconds *2.5 sec charge with 2 second reload* and does 1600 damage with 360 penetration. Honestly the penetration has me baffled though I'm assuming this is because it's good vs vehicles so I tried to figure this out accordingly. With keeping the 360 penetration I would suggest this. 300 damage flat 2 second charge 1.5 second reload This would keep it dealing damage to vehicles but at a drastically reduced level while keeping it effective vs infantry. I mean enough cannons could still very easily focus fire down a vehicle but honestly I feel that should be the ZZaps job while the Kannon should be more anti infantry with light av. As far as the dead shiny version I would say just keep the .25 reduction to the charge shot so it's 1.75 instead of 2. Anyway these are just suggestions I have came up with to give for the weapon types people have been crying about the most. The kannon change is a straight up nerf to vehicles but it would remain effective vs infantry especially when allowing the frag shot to detonate on impact of a player. The AC and AD changes honestly I think would need to be tested on UAT before going live but I think with the numbers and recoil/spread these changes would be the best to the game.
Just a little food for thought, The A/C is now suppose to be our "long" range "sniping" weapon according to Brent in one of twitch shows. Why have the damage drop off at 12.5 meters? The Bolter canon doesn't drop off till well over 60 meters. If these weapons are suppose to be our "long reach" weapon why the short range? Other wise I can't say much else about the other numbers at this time. Just the short range caught my attention given the "role" the A/C is suppose to have now *shrugs*
I actually didn't change the default ranges... Literally all I changed was heat per shot, damage and rpm
300 is too low imo. The kannon is an important tool for breaking lines on maps like agnathio and harkus. If you make it 300 it would be so low that its ROF would hinder it and make it not useful enough to use unless massed. Personally I say go to 500. That significantly reduced splash kill while keeping the instant removal needed for attackers on ticket maps.
I agree, your damage drop-off for the kannon is a bit too extreme for a weapon that's supposed to be a high-explosive projectile. Ragescreama's numbers feel more viable for the weapon. And also as a Loota that mainly uses the kannon (being a Freeboota and all) I'd be okay with just a visual indicator for the frag snap-shot over the detonate-on-impact, if for no other reason than the devs will be bugged by every Ork to make the Skip Launcha do the same thing. Not sure how I feel about the large damage drop-off for vehicles, once again holding to the fact that it's a high-explosive weapon and that we already have a kannon alt that is made for killing infantry (Napalm Kannon). Perhaps a mild reduction while also buffing the Zzzap Gun to make it more suited for AV purposes?
I addressed the slow speed of it firing in the main post as well but I'll explain it again. Currently it's 2.5 second charge and 2 second reload that makes a total of 4.5 seconds between shots. I recommended this be lowered to 2 seconds charge and 1.5 second reload which brings it down to 3.5 seconds between shots. As far as the damage goes I threw 300 in since the kannon has 360 penetration on the shell shot... This means no matter how much toughness the player stacks they will be downed. This could be increased to 325-350 but any more and it would basically delete the downed state from the player. The reason people complain about the kannon is because it just deletes who ever you point it at while doing charged shot. This would basically be giving it the plasma cannon treatment but still allow it to be used vs vehicles just to a much lesser capacity than the zzap. The damage being 500 would just delete the player due to the 360 penetration meaning its true damage. It needs to do enough to just down a player into bleed state maybe put them really close to death but have a small chance for the enemy to revive them. The kannon just deletes players atm while also being as effective as a zzap vs vehicles. The drastic drop off in damage would mean it's still effective vs infantry while at the same time it's able to at least damage vehicles just to a much lesser capacity. If the penetration of the shell shot was only 80 like it used to be I would say yea 400-500 damage but the fact the thing is 360 penetration it would literally be like being hit with a heavy power fist attack... Literally just deletes the player but at range.
Thats the thing though it still needs a near direct hit or direct hit to kill. Making it not kill makes it pretty much useless. People complain about no downed state but based on current map design and how easy a single support can keep groups of heavies going the game absolutely has to have insta ragdolls on all factions. If people don't like being ragdolled then they shouldn't stand where it can easily happen. This is for all factions btw. The old plasma cannon was too much. It had two rapid fire massive aoe instagibs. Then they over nerfed the PC so now no one hardly uses it. It really shows imo just how much it hurts the lsm that they don'y have a weapon in this roll. I think its actually one of the reasons they got the arguably overperforming servoskull. Fortress maps have to have options to reliably crack defenders lines, otherwise pugs just don't stand a chance. If the gun doesn't kill it will just end up like the plasma cannon. Hardly anyone will use it and it won't have the impact it needs to do anything in a battle. Look at the napalm launcher it can't outright kill with reliablity due to being able to roll the ailment off. As such it has become a super super niche weapon that isn't all that usable outside of those few times it works.
They could go proper orky. Have randomized AV damage. Something like 200-2000. Justify it by saying they aren't using proper ammo creation techniques that make some just a cannon ball and other a super high explosive.
The thing is the weapon would stay effective vs infantry with these changes. Just because you don't instant delete the player from existence doesn't mean the weapon is useless... Honestly the faster fire rate and guaranteed downed state would mean the weapon is actually a bit better in most cases. The weapon is mainly used as anti infantry right now as it is and the issue is that it literally deletes the player you shoot at.... Also I don't agree that the kannon would be used less than the plasma cannon mainly because it would still have the really fast projectile. That is where the plasma cannon falls flat the projectile speed is so slow you can see it coming and can very easily avoid it the kannon on the other hand you just go boom. Also the napalm actually isn't to bad it just really seems like ass in comparison to the delete factor the kannon has. With the change I suggested they would be on par with each other. Also it takes 4 rolls to keep yourself from being downed by the napalm kannons grenades and you usually can only get off 2-3 and get downed anyway. I've been using that to my advantage with it and tossing little napalm friends onto enemies when they go to pick up their allies. Yea I could have used the kannon and just deleted them all but really that is the reason the kannon needs a bit of a nerf.... Anyway speeding up the shots would be for all the kannon versions so it would also in directly buff the napalm a bit more.
