Of course they drain resources without any payback. Do you think they run on air? Relevant cost? Any loss is not desired and minimized as much as possible.

You can't know, exactly. I told you why. Developers have different DB techniques. Some are more efficient than others. And... You can't know someone else's "price" on man power, processing, etc.

I didn't say inactive accounts don't have a cost. You asked why there would be a difference in cost. I gave you the answer.

Finally, after 15 pages, the gist of your opinion. Here's the whole problem, F2Whaaagh accounts are neccesary for EC for the reasons I explained many times here so your solution for EC is a wrong one. End of story.

You completely misunderstood your own question and my reply. I never proposed a solution. What you quoted was an answer you asked for...

I'm starting to think this is a language barrier issue. I refuse to believe you're missing every, single point on purpose, and I doubt you're box-of-rocks dumb.

whitout payback?
that account exist because someone have buyed the game, is not a loss is a cost of the game management.
We don't know the cost but we know that: no payed account expire: so it mean that the cost is manageable and is part of the price i pay for the game.
F2P/trial account in many cases instead expire, but is happen rarely, because have a lot of account registered is a big resource for a company.
In fact if we are 10k people and we start to create 100 f2p accout with 100 different email, we create 1million of account, they can say "more than 1 million of players registered!"

I never nerver listen a game company complaining about the number of account.

Misunderstood my own question? Are you joking ? You are advocating subs all the time from the beginning of this thread and at same time saying the opposite, that's clearly schizophrenic.

Your problem was to: 'pull some cash from the F2Whaaagh players' (not direct quotation but these are your words) and you suggessted Subs would be the best idea to achieve this;

Which is a complete nonsense since EC cannot do without F2Whaagh ork boys.

You wish I was missing your points but the truth is you first say one thing than you deny it and water it down to the point nobody except for you in this discussion knows what your point is. And i ask you last time to stop making personal remarks, next time your posts will be reported and deleted according to the forum rules.

I've decided to give this nonsense a miss. I've had my say, I stand on what I've said; I've got better things to do.

The devs have decided there will be no subscription model, end of discussion. And any discussion to try and justify the purpose behind subscriptions is mute under the basis that it would instead be in reference to other games, which is clearly an off-topic subject.

In conclusion, again, if you feel that subscription is required for a game to be a good experience then feel free to go play Wildstar, ESO or that mess WoW has became.

The only reason subscription even works for WoW and even works for other games like EVE is because in the case of WoW the developers "go with it". Thing is if the majority of the community is willing to pay a subscription fee to play the game; the developers "go with it" and think "Well, they all pay us money, they don't complain about it, their happy, we're happy... who cares! Why change a system people are happy with?"

Does anyone have any idea how horrible WoW was at release? How horrible the competition was to it at the time? Thing is everyone looks back at MMOs from yesteryear with rose tinted glasses and spout a ton of absolute garbage about this that or my reasoning is the opinion of the enlightened. I'm old enough to remember classic WoW, I'm old enough to remember the competition to it and older MMOs like Neocron and every other 2nd generation MMO which came before WoW. WoW along with them... all sucked...

Blizzard didn't even think WoW would be successful, they made it simply to cash in on MMOs, they wanted to a piece of the pie, they made an Everquest clone. But the reason it was a success wasn't because of subscriptions, it was because of gameplay. WoW offered something all the previous MMOs didn't have, solid, no fuss questing and no penalties for death. People flocked to that, people loved that, Blizzard didn't understand how their game became so popular.

Thing is it's having the balls to go "We want to make a game which people find fun and brakes the mold, dares to do something different." And success comes from public opinion, presentation, gameplay and how much fun people have playing it. Payment models make no difference.

LoL is F2P but makes way more money that WoW does? Why? Because so many people love it so much they shell out a lot of money to buy skins, champions and other things. Why? Because they enjoy the game, that's why!

The whole concept of debating the legitimacy of something which is about having fun I find beyond disturbing.

When you force things based on studies and statics, when you copy things because they are successful, that's what makes for failures and ruined games. Trying too hard is what ruins interest, what use is a sub when no one wants to play? It's the opinion of the fans as a community which matters, they are the customer. It's the wisdom of experienced developers which should be understood, they work in the industry.

I've come to the realization that trying to analyze these things or coming up with "it was successful because this" is poison to making games; It ruins games.

Please stop with the narrow minded opinions and using statistics to justify opinion. Play the games you enjoy playing, everyone else will play the games they enjoy playing. And if a lot of people play the same game, people will pay for it, it will be supported.

No, the F2P account exists just because someone signed up. You don't have to pay anything for it.

I'm not saying loss isn't able to be managed. Every MMO manages loss. They all try to minimize loss no matter how little it is on an individual basis. That's exactly why you see most games automatically log characters off if they haven't executed a movement or action after awhile. Saves some resources. Very little when it's just one player, but little stuff adds up and can become a big cost.

Leech-type alts waste resources. Can't deny that. Still doesn't mean I've said EC needs a subscription, though.

Read what you typed:

What answer did you expect to get when you're the one saying they'd be paying? If they were paying... They'd be under a subscription, which is why I replied with:

Wonder why I answered that way... Hmmm.... Such a mystery!

You could have saved the post because the only person who said a subscription is necessary is the OP, and I don't think he ever came back after starting the thread.

That was the best part of your post.

Ok I'll make it simple for you:

For the first question answer only : yes or no:

1. Do you think sub model will be beneficial for EC (in the shape we know so far with F2Whaagh ork boys)?

yes\no

2. For this question pls elaborate: How are you gonna 'pull some cash' from F2Whaagh players ?


When you answer this clearly, honestly and breifly I might understand your point finally and will have no further questions.

really? people don't need to pay for a f2p account? maybe because I obviusly talking about payng account: because we already stated that f2p account have limitation and/or expire in the case they become a problem.
it's not a loss it's a cost. Marketing/promotional cost.

Alt don't leech/waste resource: people payed for creating an account with alt.

I agree that subs are a very good business model, I would never pay it for this kind of game because they only work for games that have an evolving PVE aspect. Where you need a story arc to completely convey the idea of the game with raids and dungeons being a main focus. I think that many people do not understand the term MMO and take it as a genre set in stone by blizzard as in WoW. MMO just means massively multiplayer online. Now within these boundaries you have MMORPGs and along with many others you also have a Persistent PVP MMO as in Planetside 2 and this game. This game will be solely PVP with a sprinkle of PVE Procedural Tyranids as a salt and pepper to your main entree. The only reason you will PVE in this game is to gather relics or to fend off attacks on your locations producing resources. Which I will guess is something that will not take more than 15-20 mins of your time, if you log into this game and play it for an hour or two you will be in the middle of an all out PVP carnage for 80% of the time. Why would you want to pay a sub for that? (this is what i gather from reading threads and IMHO)