Background Image

striking scorpion stealth

Discussion in 'Eldar' started by Alfafox, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    We will already have enough customization with Wargear and Mods.
  2. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    My idea exemplifies the unique and cool aspects of the Scorpion Stealth, making it incredibly Scorpion-like as the player's level of Stealth is determined by where they are and what they are doing, not whether an enemy is close to them or has their reticle near them.

    Exactly. They are not an invisibility unit. So gaining full invisibility for Stealth that is broken by physical/reticle proximity makes less sense than progressive Stealth that is based upon the player's actions and location.

    Obviously, Stealth stands for transparency/distortion. Instead of typing transparency/distortion each time, I simply typed Stealth.
    75% is the highest potential for an individual as it then requires teamwork to reach complete invisibility, especially considering we have established that Scorpions do not actually have any sort of invisibility capabilities. Of course, the Crouch bonus could be raised to 30%, allowing for 90% max with individual abilities. There could of course be pieces of Wargear/Perks that raise Stealth %.
    In the midst of gunfire, explosions and other visible enemies, even a 60% transparent enemy can slip your notice.

    Yes, because it represents them momentarily making the best use of their ability to hide, even if they should otherwise be in plain sight. With the 30% Active Stealth, a crouching Scorpion can move through even a lit and open area with 45% Stealth.

    Alternatively:
    The boni for Still/Crouch/Dark could be raised to 30 or 45%, while the Active buff and the Conceal bonus could be 50%.
    I always tend to lowball numbers when first introducing something as that is far better than blowing them out of proportion.

    The whole point of Scorpion Stealth is, they have already gotten into position and are waiting in ambush with the advantage of Stealth. The usage of Stealth, of course, helps them reach their ambush location. My system encourages Scorpions to be careful when advancing upon the enemy with their Stealth because it is not perfect invisibility, while whenever Scorpions are defending locations, especially in dark areas, they have a more significant defensive advantage and ambush capability.

    My system would allow keen-eyed players to spot a Striking Scorpion, which we both consider a personal skill. It's their fault for standing and having only partial Stealth, when they could have been crouched somewhere to minimize their profile and boost their Stealth level before ambushing whatever enemy came into range. Current system puts most of the effort of revealing Stealthed players in the game's hands, simply requiring players get close and/or happen to have their reticle aimed in the Scorpion's direction. My system allows the Scorpion to control their level of Stealth so they know just how visible they are or are not and thus how likely they are or are not to be spotted, while allowing people with situational awareness to spot Scorpions before they can attack.

    That enemy just has to sweep their reticle back and forth and the game will reveal Scorpions for them when the reticle gets near them. When the Scorpion gets close to a player or vice versa the game reveals them. The player should have a variable level of Stealth that they control depending on their actions and location.

    Weapon add-ons like flashlights can remove the darkness bonus in its AoE, revealing the enemy by shining a flashlight at them, while something like a laser-sight could cause some sort of weird optical effect when hitting a Stealthed player.

    Looks can be deceiving as it is not the best implementation possible for Stealth in EC.

    The idea is not to nerf Scorpion Stealth but to change it to a proper and better implementation.

    Incorrect. If your reticle is right on top of them it provides the greatest degree of reveal but the Scorpion starts to become revealed simply through reticle proximity, which in turn allows players to player Scorpion Sweeper whenever dealing with Eldar so the game will give them a heads up. Mine is providing a proper Stealth mechanic where the player's level of Stealth is controlled by their own actions and location, rather than if an enemy is nearby or pointing a reticle at them.
  3. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    And this will make them essentially useless because:
    1. Nobody is going to play a class that relies on waiting in one spot for enemies to come across them.
    2. It makes them nearly useless in attack, since with your system you won't be able to get close enough to enemy.
    3. This will make them a lot less useful on bright maps where there are less places to hide.
    4. This makes them very predictable. With your system being reliant on staying in the dark, the amount of potential hiding spots will be limited, and smart players will check(or even pre-fire) them, thus making Scorpions pretty bad in defense. In fact, a Dire Avenger will even fare better, because he has a ranged weapon and can hide in a more places.
    5. I think you don't understand just how visible you are going to be with 50% transparency on the move.
    6. 45% while standing still in the dark and crouching is still perfectly visible, especially if the enemy knows where you can hide(which good players will). Active ability doesn't even make sense for your system that forces Scorpion to sit in ambush and wait for enemies to come near.
    Furthermore, current system already allows Striking Scorpions to control their level of stealth by staying crouched and keeping their distance from enemies until they are ready to strike. I can imagine experienced players learning to judge how visible they are after a few hundred matches.
    Noromiz likes this.
  4. Glitz Boaz First Blood!

    Eldar... I hate them in the table top game, and now I hate them in the online game. I'd rather hug a plague bearer.
  5. Sleepylion Sleepylion Well-Known Member

    And with your method, they don't have to? Also, Scorpion is not the only Eldar class, you play Sweeper with them and the other will tear you up for not paying attention to them.
  6. THE NATHANIMAL EventHorizon Arkhona Vanguard

    *Gets Eldar on you*
  7. Zaeryn Zaeryn Master

    1. You aren't reliant upon waiting in one spot. Stealth is not the only thing that gives a Scorpion their power. It is merely a part of it.
    2. Makes them useful in attack because they can still get close to the enemy due to bright flashing lights and the presence of other, completely visible allies of your's that the enemy is more likely to see and thus attack.
    3. Boosts their effectiveness when fighting at night(all maps) and on non-bright maps where there are more places to hide.
    4. Never once said you are reliant on staying in the dark and nothing I've posted so far has suggested such. Players can feel free to waste ammo firing at the shadows. Let them be afraid of the Scorpions.
    5. 50% less visible than everyone else that is moving around. I think you are for some reason thinking you are a single Scorpion without any allies whatsoever attempting to sneak your way into the enemy barracks.
    6. You can change numbers. Wow. Imagine that. Totally blew your mind, didn't it? Players knowing a general area you can hide in does not tell them exactly where in that area you are hiding. Active ability makes perfect sense as it allows you to temporarily have some Stealth if sprinting across an open and lit area.

    Very minimal control, consisting of 'crouch/stay away from enemy'. My proper WH40K system allows for actual control over your level of Stealth because it is based upon what you are doing and where you are, not how close someone's character model or reticle are to you. I can imagine it will take less than a few hundred matches using my better system.

    With my method, a Scorpion's level of Stealth is exactly the same whether or not he's directly in the center of your screen or at the edge. Therefore, you can use your own human eyeballs to look at your screen and spot that enemy without first needing to point your reticle in their general direction to begin revealing them.
  8. Shiani Brujah Preacher

    The relevance to this conversation is..?
  9. Tbh with the backstab mechanic in place I expect to see a lot of that happen either way.
  10. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    Stealth is absolutely essential for Striking Scorpions. You can't just say "But you should rely on your teammates, stealth isn't your main tool". No, it is your main tool. If you don't rely on your stealth, then there is no reason to play Striking Scorpion. Why would you play a unit that relies on his stealth, but is perfectly visible if you can play Howling Banshee, which has a different way to get up close.

    Also, this may be a shock to you, but you are the one who controls how close enemies get to you. It is fully in your hands and depending on your skill.

    I know you like to imagine yourself as some god of balancing who knows what's best for this game, but that's simply not the case. You have some good ideas, but only a few. The rest are complete bullshit, that may work in your dreams, but will never work in an actual game.

Share This Page