the game have progression don't have level but still have progression (not all pen and paper rpg have level)

I also think that this is probably the best definition.
If we actually take into account the wording and examples Miguel uses in the interviews, and his educational background (IIRC he mentioned in a interview he has a degree in military history), you can be fairly accurate with this definition.

Progression, vertical or parallel, is a given in any video game.If there was no progression, why would you play it anyway?

Progression is in this game also...maybe you start as tactical marine with a bolter and you unlock later a MK8 errant armor and a plasma gun...this will make you more powerful and more lethal...will this make you immune to the new guy that just entered the game because of some silly stats? hell no....That's the fine detail that a "battle simulator" must pay close attention to, compared to a typical modern MMORPG.

no not all game have progression and is not given, you can play a game like EC without progression (all player have all unlocked from the start), and the game is still fun, for some people is more fun because is more skill based and don't need to play to unlock.

mmorpg =/= themepark.
don't think that all mmorpg are themepark.
your example describe a themepark with vertical progression.
a game like EC with horizontal progression, class sistem with perk/loadout, can be considered a RPG without problem, in particolar for the fact that the game have an heavy narrative component (it's not a random fighting arena).
When is needed to decide if a game is a RPG combat stile and a lot less important than many people thing:
RPG is not about level, epic drop, and dungeon.
RPG is about narrate a story and have a role in that story as a character involved in the narration.


MMORPG is a really open genre with many subgenre, Ultima online and everquest are 2 game totally different but still are both MMORPG. Darkfall and wilstar are 2 complete different game but still they are both MMORPG.

Progression can be anything, like advancing to a new level or area, or meeting new enemies...
All games have some kind of progression, it's not tied to the players avatar , it can be changing the parameters around him, like unlocking a new track in a racing game or making enemies tougher.Even meeting new players as adversaries in a flat, never changing arena is progression of some type.

Of course MMRPG =/= themepark, this is exactly my point since my first post...people nowdays think that anything not "WoWish" is not MMORPG...RPG is ROLE PLAYING GAME, and that has nothing to do with gear-depended mechanics or lvl advancement, but people relate those to RPG because of popular games...I remember Call of Cthulhu P'n'P...what lvl advancement? you where just lucky if you stayed alive or even kept your sanity long enough...no time to think about loot...

Though it's been clearly stated through multiple interviews and developer comments, that EC will not follow traditional MMO progression, I feel it's critical to keep the "carrot on the stick" for the hard core crowd, in the form of weapon and gear unlocks, along with skills and other various unlocks that take months of work for even the most hard core.

If I can unlock all the gear and goodies for my main characters in a week or 3, I usually bore of that game quite quickly, regardless of the hundreds of other things I can do in a game.

Now I do understand that character progression will be occurring simultaneously alongside every campaign, and that the campaign is the main focus... it's still critical that character progression is extremely deep and offers a wide variety of choices and paths for the player.

I recall somewhere that you will have to unlock vehicles before you use them. If this is true there is some progression in the game right there.

I'd like to see that any progression changes the weapon but does not upgrade it. By that I mean it will be better in different situation for example a scope to make a stalker bolter better range slower fire rate. This will enevatably lead to more use of a certain loadout because there will be situations that occur more often but that's ok because if things change the guy with the different load out will stand a better chance for example if some heavy armor turns up. These changes should all be unlocked from the use of that weapon or mastery of it like in battlefield.

I'd like to see visual customisation and skins or artefacts that can be added to weapons and armor but these should be cosmetic only not stat boosting. These could come from finding drops while grinding in the dungeon ie a tyranid tooth to hang off a bolter or helm or arm or whatever or bought from the shop or a reward from the emperor for completing an objective/winning a campaign or found after completing a dungeon and all these should be tradeable and have different rarity and therefore value to players, slightly like in dota 2. I believe this would give the traditional rpg players the fix they need without upsetting balance etc.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if one weapon is more expensive than the next, as a standard trooper you hit a wall whereby over a certain point every weapon becomes overkill.

Why would you spend the extra resource on an expensive meltagun shot when 2 -3 cheap boltgun shots would do it? Or use a lascannon instead of a meltagun single shot kill is a single shot kill either way?

Actually it matters because the resources that you spend for a weapon could be hoarded for ammunition/armor/vehicles(?!)

Generally the same point that I was making Galen, my main point though was from an infantry point of view the vertical progression of improvement to your weaponry has a ceiling in that anything beyond it is a waste of resource simply to kill infantry as all of the more powerful weapons will have the same effect as cheaper weapons ie. Kill you.

So the resource is better spent on specialized weapons for specialized jobs, there is no point in shooting an Ork boy with a lascannon when a meltgun (or probably a boltgun) will do exactly the same job, you're better off saving the lascannon for the tank.