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State Of The Crusade

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Oveur, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Redthirst Redthirst Eternal Battles Moderator

    Yeah, but what is the difference between them releasing it in 3 months while showing us progress on it, and them being silent for 3 months and relasing same module?
  2. Black_DrozD Black_DrozD First Blood!

    Concentration.They say:"We are indy, we have 35 people". So lead all these little forces for the one aim.Forget about anything else,all these support activities,just make the game.I,as a player, don`t care screenshots from 50 angles, I don`t care some theoretical progress. I liked the moment, when the first type of space marine graphics has stepped to the second - that was the progress.The same screnshots - not the progress.
  3. Black_DrozD Black_DrozD First Blood!

    The final wish of the community is to play the game.Not to pay for pictures. We payed and we are waiting, however childish delight has ended somewhere near the last Twitch of 2014.
    I saw a couple of times, when players asked to stop stamping these gold guns for loyalists in the Rogue Trader,aaaand... no reaction.The last DA plasma cannon is again with gold.I understand the grotesque style of the Imperium, but there is to much gold in the Trader,too much.
    One of the points to start founders program was to create a possibility to play earlier. And before the start of it, there was talks like "wait a bit, summer=founders program, winter=first module", than "December=first 50 founders in test",etc. So who cares this program, if it still doesn`t work?
  4. He is still on another project but he is supposed to come back afaik. @BrentEllison is clearly the man to ask!
    And also like it as said, progression is being looked at only in some time!
    Rikamar, Kaelin, Ideas_McGee and 2 others like this.
  5. there must be only a few who complained about the gold guns since I haven't noticed it

    but I saw lots of complain about the Eldar weapon
    and one of the designers took notice of it, let's see what will happen

    it sounds like you arguments are only for the inpatient part of the com
    IvanMulkeen and Ideas_McGee like this.
  6. Diasaffected member Norm Well-Known Member

    How long do you think it takes to upload a screenshot? Do you really think that ceasing communication with community will somehow greatly increase the devs work rate?

    I know that having a dialogue with your customer makes it a hell of alot easier to create a product that they want. It also helps the customer understand when their expectations are unreasonable.

    I can understand your perspective to a degree "stop showing us things we've already seen and get on with making something new!". It's probably not to bold of a statement to say that the vast majority of us have felt that at some point (no more mehrines! Xenos now ;)). Saying that closing the doors and occasionally bursting out with some fresh content is going to improve the production process the very least unrepresentative of this community (which has formed around the devs ethos of transparency).

    There is obviously an appetite for this method of development otherwise I doubt these forums would be what they are.

    Creative Assembly operate behind closed doors. That always works well :p . Despite my love for the Warhammer IP there is no chance I will be part of any founder/pre order scheme CA operate for Warhammer: Total War. It will probably be a few months before I consider buying the game and only then in the unlikely event that warhammer fans give it the thumbs up.
  7. Well It was the fact the most respected people, the mods, and some devs had changed the subject then you here have the tenacity to over step us all!!! Heresy...

    But for the dates they never set anything in stone, Or in this case ceramite, They said dayz that weretheir goals but then they wanted to add more stuff. I mean personally if the first module came out and its simple firefighting it be awesome but nothing much to do after. Now with all these delays that means the first MA will have to live up to everyone expectations and have alot of content in it or alot of people will be disappointed
    Kram likes this.
  8. On their twitter I actually saw a white board with sticker notes plastered all over it and a chart.

    To anyone who have *NEVER* done any work in any form of design focused industry (doesn't matter what industry it is, the road map is usually the same regardless - don't fix what isn't broken). They have no clue what their seeing.

    To me, I see something that indicates focused planned progress, as to which what was going on before that - since I have no clue, I won't make assumptions or jump to conclusions.

    But that white board with sticker notes is a development schedule, with various aspects and focuses which need to be addressed and completed. Hopefully it also has time frame allocations so they can come up with an estimated time amount for each part.

    As for how long things take, it truly comes down to the skill of the people involved, how fast they can do it in and how quickly they can resolve any unforeseen issues, such as "ideas on paper - sometimes are hard to pull off when put to code" and it doesn't necessarily translate to or suggest a lack of skill of the developers. Here's the thing about programming, having done a year learning to program, what is learned, known and in books - known formula and ways of doing things are easy, you can write up to something in the figure of 1000 lines of code, now this is from a well trained, well experienced programmer who knows what their doing, all along testing their code on a regular basis, or each time they write up a statement, they run it though an error/bug check (now I say this because depending on the software you use, it has different names, I'm going to assume in this case Visual Studio 2014).

    Thing is - known ways of doing things, don't always work and often work differently - when you write it from scratch in C or C++, pretty much you follow the standard way of doing things, because it works. But when you start interacting with existing libraries, existing tools and existing frameworks/game engines which were pre-made... that's when you bump into issues where suddenly you are faced with a situation where you have to write what you know how to do off the top of your head - differently.
    Just an example from my own experience:
    I was learning to program in C++, I only learned a couple of ways to do collision. I knew them so well that I could re-write what I always did for it in a few minutes and it was done...
    Then the group I was with for a mini-major practice project (to get us ready for the BIG project) we were only given 4 weeks to finish - an entire prototype for a small game, we only had 5 team members and one member who was, well never there after the first week because he went on holidays <_<, so out of 6 people it was 5.
    We decided that using the framework provided was out of the question for what the team wanted to do - it was too barebones (they wanted to make an isometric RPG game prototype in 4 weeks - yeah...) So we instead used MonoGame, an XNA framework Freely distributed game engine. Where instead you coded the gameplay in C#...

    All of a sudden I end up finding myself spending 6 hours working out just how to set up a global collision system, which applies a collision box automatically to all objects as soon as they appear in the game - then set up exceptions where some objects ignore other objects using a language I only understood because it was similar to C++, never learned it at all. Then I worked out the way I did things previously didn't work so I had to figure out a new way to do it. Took me 6 hours to write 22 lines of code making up three separate interconnected statements.

    And this is only a problem a newbie like me would encounter, a student noobie. The issues in the actual industry they encounter are much more wide scoped. For instance, what might work running on one graphics card - won't on another for example and that's going into the realm of graphics programming which is insane. Then you have like I said - issues where the game engine itself does weird things like "brake" and "crash" when you add gameplay code it doesn't like running in some situations; usually because sometimes adding an extra cog is akin to throwing a wrench between existing ones without realization of doing so. Then you get to other scenarios where the game engine is doing exactly what it has supposed to do - you simply haven't covered all the contingencies, so you have to go back and add more code.

    Now this just applies to programming, design? It has it's own list of issues to go though - such as "this idea sounds great on paper, but in practice it's boring or not fun, or conflicts with the mechanics."

    When you are making something new, where there is no textbook way of doing it, that's when you have to hit the chalkboard and start coming up with ways to make it work, before even attempting to sit down and even start work on it, that's the best and most time saving approach. And I learned it's extremely important to plan things out and draft things before you spend time working on it, otherwise it will take longer...

    And even when you've done that, you still encounter more problems.

    The only reason some games are fantastic is because they are usually built on top of something that they had learned via previously went though great hardships, failures and discovering ways to fix those issues. Which usually takes YEARS. Much like in a game like EVE Online where someone who had been playing for a decade has so much ISK they don't know what to do with and have so much experience they have trained half the stuff you can train in the entire game... one could say a game engine which has been worked on by a company for a decade - is rather hard to match without the skill and talent of very experienced people.

    Again I'm not making excuses on behalf of the devs or defending them, just some of the situations that are often encountered. So if anything, if you want to be upset, be upset, if you want to be annoyed at the changes, you have that right too... but what you should do is understand, show understanding. Now if anyone is dishonest, that's when people don't deserve your understanding, when people repeatedly do the same old song and dance rather than change their ways, that's when you should start to question things, when people never change their past mistakes and keep repeating them, that's when you should lose faith in them. But don't lose faith over one incident - regardless of it's relation to any other. If anything show a healthy degree of concern, skepticism if any... and as for the devs, they should expect it and in turn not let it bother them, they should just press on and make a fantastic game. People tend to turn from anger and hate to love and admiration at the turn of a hat sometimes, as they say in Rome "The Plebs are fickle" (btw I know it's a nasty term but I honestly couldn't find a better analogy at the time of writing this).
    Rikamar, Kudzu, Miirk and 4 others like this.
  9. Laanshor Laanshor Well-Known Member

    That's great news. Cheers Patrick :)
  10. Diasaffected member Norm Well-Known Member

    Why didn't you write that in Orkish? ;)

    For a group of people who are fans of a brutal, uncompromising and unjust IP, we do ask for understanding and patience alot :D. Not a criticism btw!!!
  11. Nathan Richardsson Oveur Senior Producer

    Aww, thank you, that's actually quite flattering! :)
    Kudzu, BikerTroll and Kaelin like this.

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