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Stalker Bolter rework to a more Lore-authentic style, without making it bad

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by Mainfold, Feb 16, 2018.

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  1. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    So had some concepts come to mind, and figured they'd be helpful pointers for @Pierrick to have for reworking the Stalker Bolter to a more lore-authentic version.. without making it useless and change it from being a "quasi-shotgun".
    This is strictly about the Stalker Bolter, nothing else.

    The gist of the lore about Stalker Bolters:
    In the lore, the "Stalker Bolter" is a modification done to (most commonly the Mk. 5bravo variant of the Godwyn pattern) Bolters, to make them capable of assassination and scout-related tasks, such as sniper task (or rather "marksman") without giving away the position of the shooter.
    To achieve this, the modification firstly swaps the standard self-propelled gyro bolts (they are like tiny rockets with an explosive charge in them) out for more "traditional" expanding-gas propelled projectiles, that travel at sub-sonic speeds. This allows for the weapon to be applied a silencer to.
    Having rounds that do not give off sound allows for assassinations or stealthy kills without the victim(s) or anyone/anything surrounding the target to notice the origin of the shot and thus it's shooter.

    For this to be viable, the rounds/bolts have to firstly not be explosive like the standard .75 bolts are, and also not give off the sound of the propellant burning at the end of the round.
    And without this constant momentum applied from the gyro-based ammo, and the damage caused by the explosive charge that detonates upon impact, the stalker bolts have a different design.
    As they now lack velocity so they can be possible to silence, they have to pack a harder punch when they impact the target, so they are by design rounds with more mass and are additionally armor penetrating rounds that can go through targets. It's a slug made from Mercury to both carry increased mass and has a diamond penetrator core for extra penetration capability on armor.
    In addition to the projectile being different, they now require a longer barrel with rifling to generate rotation on the rounds to stabilize them in flight via gyroscopically stabilizing of rotational-forces (whereas standard bolts generate it propellant-thrust like a rocket in flight, like the modern gyro-ammo stabilizing the rounds in flight, by providing thrust and spin).
    And secondly since the rounds now do not travel in a straight line anymore without constant gyro-based thrust, they also need an advanced targeting system for the drop the projectile will have over distance.

    In essence, to deal enough damage while still being silent, the rounds will go straight through ammo and damage what's beyond the armor, increasing lethality vs armored targets, but little difference on unarmored targets that are just tough outside of just being hit by a high-mass projectile.

    Currently the Stalker Bolter's stats in-game are;
    • Damage 125@65m, down to 106@130m
    • 100 pen
    • 100 rpm
    • 0.5°/2°/0.25° (ADS/HIP/SIPS)
    • 0.22°/3° recoil
    • 10/40 ammo
    • 2.3sec/1.8sec reload (empty/rounds left in the mag)

    A few concepts for how the Stalker Bolter could be changed to more appropriately reflect them from lore&tabletop;
    Concept 1:
    • Invert damage to make it start low and increase in potency at the "end damage", promoting it as a long range weapon and not as a close range "quasi-shotgun" of sorts (which it tends to be used as currently).
    • Start damage 38, end at 125@130m+.
    • Heartpiercer effect on rounds
    • (this is obviously the easy variant, but not as lore-authentic)
    Concept 2:
    Though a proper Stalker Bolter would be more like the heartpiercer (though fewer targets penetrated, maybe 2 at most) with a traveling projectile with drop and average damage but more penetration than any toughness could combat (i.e; like ignoring armor saves on tabletop etc, would damage health directly ignoring armor, like the poison ailment)
    • Damage model akin to that of the new Bolter on UAT
    • Enough Penetration to not be possible to reduce damage of the round with any amount of toughness
    • Shots damage health directly, and ignores armor (ammo-effect like that off the poison ailment)
    • Traveling projectiles with "bullet-drop" (like you see on the charged-shot of plasma weapons).
    Alternatively and preferably for most possible lore-authenticity, the rounds should have "bullet-drop" as a skill-element. Desired regardless of it being concept 1 or 2, or even if it was applied to the current Stalker Bolter version on live. Also for both concepts, the removal of the downed target getting camera oriented towards the one that shot them down, to preserve an element of stealth to the Stalker Bolter, so they can't just be healed back up and instantly fire back if they didn't actually know where it was coming from previously.

    Additionally it would be nice if the "delayed shooting" that happens, where it queues up a shot and fires it later because you clicked while it's rpm-cycle was on "cooldown", got fixed.

    As @Pierrick is not afraid to try new concepts and ideas to make the game's weapons reflect more correctly/authentically their corresponding lore they're based on, but still keeping things good and fun to use, changing the Stalker Bolter to more appropriately reflect it as well would be a nice way to breath some new life into it. Also making it a weapon that's not only interesting and skillful to use, but also something that doesn't feel like you're just being shot by a scoped Autocannon.

    I've had more concepts for it in mind, but don't need to pour out a truck-load of concepts that dabble in too many other facets of the game.
    (@Pierrick this is a simplified version of what I wanted to have a chat with you about, yes.. this is the simplified version.)
  2. Lord Ravagerx Deadknight Well-Known Member

    stalker bolter sure change it or give us the ability to modify

    pls like space marine game, i like that stalker bolter

    and pls inferno pistol add that(lp 100 to 125)

    and off topic flamer

    like meta but have a burning effect in surrounding (2 to 4 damage are effect) frontal or near effect 25 damage(that new concept for the devs if they're still alive)
  3. Krayt Krayt Preacher

    Concept 1 would render it fucking useless
    Concept 2 would render it OP AF , how can u suggest this without saying to yourself "hmm maybe that's over the top ..."
    Zarbustibal likes this.
  4. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    ..for Pierrick to work with, to construct something out of as a protocol structure
  5. Krooza Nob Bozz KroozaNob Well-Known Member

    just make the goddamn tacticals switch to pistol in melee, got shot to death point blank because my enemy ignored completely rps system and just shot as soon as stun faded off.

    I was fast swinging with a mace and he just stood there, eating each swing just to shoot me in the head. BS that needs to piss off. Also zog smart pistols on jump assault classes.
  6. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    This has nothing to do with the topic.
  7. Krooza Nob Bozz KroozaNob Well-Known Member

    Imo it still needs to be addressed if you want to apply any change to the stalker.
    If you want to improve it in any way, you have to keep in mind atm it still can fire in melee.

    If switching automatically weapons in melee is not feasible any time soon, personally I would make it so that also headshot multiplayer damage is decreased when closer to the target, meaning you want to obtain that range advantage to use it effectively.

    I personally am not a fan of the heartpiercer effect, it could mean multiple targets are more vulnerable to a single enemy snipers simultaneously. May be as a costly mod to add, but I definetely don't want that on the vanilla weapon. As a potential drawback it could have reduced damage to compensate, but if implemented, that ability must not be a no brainer to use.
  8. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    This thread is strictly about the Stalker Bolter,
  9. Lord Ravagerx Deadknight Well-Known Member

    make the stalker bolter up gradable

    bullets, grip and x12 or x8 scope

    CSM gets a freaking autocannon and LSM gets a stalker, they say it's balance hahahaha

    that why we need upgradable
  10. Mainfold Mainfold Preacher

    @Asheru if you wouldn't mind, simply locking the thread as it seems predisposed to attract folks seeking to hijack the thread. It's not meant for anything more than @Pierrick to get ideas for further authenticity-changes, not to go off on different topics not strictly related.
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