Background Image

Speed Of Melee Combat

Discussion in 'Ask the Team' started by Wolffe, Jul 7, 2014.



  1. It wasnt about that, I know how the devs think, the point is will banshees have the mobility they should have


    because if your hit it hurts but will we have specific manoeuvers allowing us to evade being hit in melee

    a back flip to rapidly move back, roll side ways rapidly, do "bounce attacks" or stuff like that

    it's not the balance thats concerns me but the actual gameplay mechanics that we have at our disposal to really have the fealing that you are a Highly trained Eldar warrior being prepared for battle for centuries and be light footed and mobile

    not just being faster being REALLY mobile
    Lichtbringer likes this.
  2. So'Kiel So-Kiel Well-Known Member

    I can't agree more to this, as you have described my fears exactly.
    It looks like one-button-single-combo melee, like in the slashers of ancient times. In the 8th of August AMA Miguel said that melee is very realistic, as there is a block and there is a clash, staggering both melee opponents when they attack at the same time. This is NOT a realistic or interesting combat for a game, where there are specialized melee classes and most of the ranged weapons are inaccurate and limited!
    In Warhammer 40K melee is just as important as shooting, or even more. Who would play melee classes with this kind of one-button gameplay all the time? You will get tired of whatever one great combo you have. But you will never get tired of choosing your attacks.

    If adopting and adapting Mount&Blade's majestic melee system is not an option for unknown reasons, despite many modern games turn to this mechanics (most of the people who speak against it, use clunky M&B animation as an argument, it's really funny), then there is another great game with fantastic melee combat - Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (or JK2:Academy). It's already 12 years old and still is one of the best there is about swordplay.
    The idea in JK2 is the same, it's combination of a single attack button with movement keys (in M&B it's not movement, but looking direction), that gives you the choice of direction your hit will come from. The transitions between movements were much smoother than in much later M&B, and swords were clashing when their models crossed each other (instead of M&B's directional block system). Blows were pretty much deadly too, but it took some time to catch an opponent with a good hit, as his weapon was getting in the way. It was very fun and produced fantastic feeling of a melee, and while being pretty arcade and simple, it steel needed skill to be good at it.

    I agree. But why can't we have long duels in a game with hundreds of players? In M&B we have this all the time, there can be about 200 players around, and it doesn't mean you can't meet this one or those two guys in some corridor and spend a good 30 seconds (or more) with them in a good fight. And when it's wall to wall, it's not that easy too, it's an art of not getting in the way of each other, but you still can live very long in those, even though you are dead in one or two good hits.
    The thing is that melee combat should allow both for quick death, and for long fencing. Just give players the good mechanics and let their skill decide.
    CKxCinnaChEXx likes this.
  3. Joram Joram Well-Known Member

    First because I (or any other of the hundreds of players) will probably shoot you in the back while you are dueling a teammate and second if it takes that long to fight against other melee (even if is just against people with similar skill) I will rather fight against a ranged class that I can kill quickly and then move on to capture the objective while my ranged teammates deal with you.
  4. So'Kiel So-Kiel Well-Known Member

    Don't go and create situations. First you need to decide for yourself what do you want to see.
    Of course you choose what to do on a battlefield. It all depends on you. You turn your back on the enemy or start melee duel in the open - of course you risk a lot! But close combat mechanics has nothing to do with it.

    CC mechanics should allow for some skill. As a melee class you should be able to use your skill to outlive the melee opponent, even if in the beginning you were lower on health than he was. Maybe even defeat him without a scratch. Not just who hit first.
    And it does not in any way prevents you from being killed with any kind of ranged or melee weapon if you take hits.

    And isn't it right that to a melee fighter another melee opponent should be much more difficult a foe than a ranged shooter up close?
  5. I doubt whether you'd be able to get 500v500 melee only. (If thats what you mean)
    But I do want melee to last longer, maybe lower the damage ratios? I want the fights to be intense, but not take so long that someone just shoots you, taking the kill for himself. But long enough, say, 3 hits from a thunderhammer long. In space marine, you only needed to be hit twice, or once if you have an upgraded thunderhammer.

    As a fan of the dark souls, space marine, general brawler, combat system, I do feel like having a lengthy brawl would feel good, especially good when the mechanics have been refined and work well.

    Remember guise, still alpha, things will change.
  6. Joram Joram Well-Known Member

    I'm not creating any situations, the games is about hundreds of people fighting eachother, the 1vs1 fight should be the rare scenario.
  7. Uniichan Uuni Member

    Dark Souls would be a good place to look for inspiration for melee combat (aside from the netcode and P2P hosting issues, sheesh that hit registration). Dark souls 2 is almost playable on mouse and keyboard too, especially with the available mod fixes. Parrying definitely should be a thing, assault marines already have the advantage of being able to stun opponents with jump jet to get in the initial strike if the enemy doesn't see/hear them dropping. I don't mind melee kills being swift and deadly if you get caught off guard but when two people commit to 1v1 duel, there should be decent amount of depth to the combat or it will just sizzle down into a buttonmasher. Having a well fleshed out and rewarding melee system adds a huge amount of depth and longevity to those who are willing to commit to it

    There doesn't even need to be a huge amount of button inputs, having just mechanics that reward reading your opponent and experience with the speed of your weapon etc.

    The way the system is now looks more akin to Warframe melee combos which are a joke at best. An E+E+E↑+E "combo" with no timing or aiming requirements is not really something anyone enjoys
    Psychopski likes this.
  8. So'Kiel So-Kiel Well-Known Member

    To me the current close combat looks even simpler - more like mindless mashing of one button X, X, X, X, X, X.
  9. Uniichan Uuni Member

    Well in warframe E+E+E counts as a combo, the one with other inputs (that you can hold down for the entirety of the combo) are the advanced ones. The point is that I hope they don't drop the ball with melee, there are people out there who don't really care for the aiming part and just want to soar the skies as an assault marine/raptor
  10. MintyFiz MintyFiz Prefectus

    we need to see more melee weapons and the storm shield before we can draw any real conclusions about melee combat speed and balance as a whole. the chain sword is likely to be amongst the fastest close combat weapons with us yet to see the bigger and heaver close combat weapons.

Share This Page