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Space Marines 5th Chapter Vote

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by KatieFleming, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. Kenairyan Anvael Well-Known Member

    The stealth-focused chapter trait is unique to the Raven Guard as the siege warfare specialists one is to the IF. As siege warfare can be represented in a lot of different ways so does stealth. But if your question were "what is massive use of stealth good for?" then I would have answered: ambush expertise, infiltration expertise, sabotage expertise, assassination expertise... In brief, all we need for some good guerilla warfare; with the main idea behind that if you strike the legs (sabotage) or the head (assassination) first, then taking the rest of the body down shouldn't be too much of a task, having the initiative is important as well.

    The Raven Guard also use a lot of jumppack equipped assault marines, with an unusual number of lightning claws. These troups are not necessarily better than other assault marines, but in the case of the Ravens they are unusually numerous. The sons of Corax would also choose fast attack vehicles such as Land Speeders and Bikes over more heavy ones, like Predators and Land Raiders.

    Overall, the Raven Guard is stealth-focused infantry-heavy (=/= heavy infantry) chapter adept of guerilla warfare. They can in this respect be (to some extend) compared to real world modern armies and special forces units.
  2. Construct_ Thraxus First Blood!

    Heres how I see it might be implemented, all 3 sub factions will be able to action and counter act stealth mechanics in their own unique ways, as it should be.

    Different flavors of stealth suggested:

    Raven Guard: Airborne stealth specialists -

    Guerrilla warfare pro-active stealth mechanic utilizing skill rather than "poof I'm behind you!" specialized and balanced towards airborne assault type stealth.

    Imperial Fists: Land and Airborne stealth generalists -

    Pro-Active siege / anti siege mechanic to root out heretics and xenos in their midst (those in stealth) with knowledge of how to return the favour via standard issue codex airborne and land bound stealth tactics in equal balance accessible at all times. Standard issue equally balanced, available to all codex compliant sub factions

    Iron Hands: Interchangeable Land *or* Airborne stealth specialists -

    Mechanized stealth detection and pro-active utilization to return the favor of hidden assault with the ability to swap a slightly more specialised version of land or airborne stealth than the standard issue codex due to bodily enhancement. These would be easily swapped on significant timer due to their detachable mechanized nature.


    None are better than the other, only different. It just depends on weather you want to be Awesome like the Imperial Fists or not::rolleyes:

    You know what it is: Red and Yello, Red and Yello. . .

    Warning, adult language content, adults need only click. Children exempt from anti-click policy if your awesome


    *edit* at 2:19 seconds in - check out the head gear he must be into 40k lol - *re edit* - Snoop cred for the Fists :rolleyes: cant go wrong.

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    Darnath likes this.
  3. Kenairyan Anvael Well-Known Member

    That's why the rest of them have Wraith-Slip.

    Again, I didn't even spoke of necessity.

    Scouts are confirmed to not be playable at launch, and no mention of Wolf Scouts thus far; and even if these classes were confirmed to be in the game at launch they would not make the sub-factions having access to them "stealth-focused". The advantage of the Raven Guard lie in that any of its marines, as long as he does not wear something bulkier than a normal power armor, is a potential, average infiltrator. In this regard I would not underestimate the amount of damage that a group of Raven Guard tactical marines on its own could cause: once behind enemy line they could capture unsuspecting outposts and other key locations, or strike the enemy from behind while it deals with the allied forces.

    Beside that, if you're good at fortifying then you are good at taking down enemy fortifications, similarly, if you are good at sneaking in the shadows then you know where to look for hidding preys, so it would also make sense to give the "stealth-detection" trait to the Ravens. However I think that a Wraith-Slip type of stealth for classes such as Tactical Marine or Assault Marine without jumppack would be enough as sub-faction bonus (let's not be greedy).

    As for how the Raven Guard would fair in the game, you are mentioning issues that all sub-faction will have to deal with at some point. You cannot simply make a prediction based on other online game experience (I guess that you were thinking about Ps2 here) of how well such or such ability, weapon, etc. will be used, and then pretend that the said prediction was accurate.
    First, because we know too little about the game at its current stage of development and thus we are probably missing a lot of crucial variables. For example, if stealth turns out to not be a Ps2 Infiltrator-like one, but something more realistic regarding how Wraith-Slip and the Striking Scorpion stealth works in the lore; would the players that use it still behave the same way they used to on PS2? We don't know.
    Second, because in the end a tool is a tool, it can be use badly as well as efficiently, it all depends on who use it. Same thing here: will all the players that joined the Ravens be a bunch noobs? Will it evolves over time? Will the system of assigning objectives make a difference? Again, we don't know.
    This the reason (beside not wanting to start a Horus Heresy 3.0) why I don't make any gameplay-based assumptions (or at least I don't say them out loud) about the two other chapters present in the poll, because, really, what's the point of disqualifying a sub-faction based on what it might bring to a game that isn't nearly finished? Yes, I did make several assumptions about my own favorite chapter, and they are not better than yours, but if I would have not done that too many people would have start to think that Raven Guard are not the way to go after all, because of too many negative comments.

    That will be all for me. I spent way too much time translating my thoughts in a readable English here instead of sleeping or working. So here you go, you can claim your victory, I actually don't really care at this point.

    Good night.
    RavenClaw likes this.
  4. Why go direct siege when you have an ability to directly attack critical points that will cause maximum amount of damage to the defenders. :rolleyes:
  5. Sarghir Sarghir Arkhona Vanguard

    Directly attacking is equal to sieging whole fort. Only one difference, most of Raven Guard fans arent equal to their idols in sneaking, thus theirs stealth would not finish successfully, while sieging have more chances to success.
  6. :D

    That is true...
    Yet some complain RG would be OP as 5th subfaction
  7. Only OP thing I've seen complained about is that some want every RG class to have Mor Deythan's level of stealth, which according to Lexicanum: "However rumor had it that they possessed the ability of their Primarch's ability of nigh-invisibility."
    KillboFraggins and Sarghir like this.
  8. Even IF that was the case all games that have any form of "invisibility" also have a counter to it... of some kind of form.
    But this the voting thread and people using RG being what it is as a negative thing and stating it's a reason to not vote on them.
  9. :D Damn, that wouldn't even be fun, just let this for an hero/elite class (let it be Mor Deythan, Shadow captain or whatever) and just give silent gears/jetpacks and lower cover positioning to the basic classes.
    As for the others, I would like to see Iron Fathers for Iron Hands (correct me if i'm wrong, but combat wise, they should be a mix between chaplains and techmarines, right?), and someone know what could be a possible unique elite/hero character for the IF? (don't come up with emperor's champion, i intend Imperial Fists only)
    Anvael and Hell_Grunt like this.
  10. All of Dorn's chapter have the Emperor's Champion available to them.

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