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Sorcerer so bad....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RuntKikka, May 8, 2016.

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Mornek Mornek Well-Known Member

You have missed the most important figure for comparison.

Mornek, May 8, 2016

#11
ANGRY MARINE ANGRY-MARINE Well-Known Member

RuntKikka said: ↑

even the metrics prove it!
Click to expand...

Did we really need metrics to confirm this? The Sorcerer has always been shit. The sword has been shit, the spells have been shit, and the revive has been shit.

Speaking of the metrics:

Mornek said: ↑

Click to expand...

WHO THE FUCK IS THIS FOR? WHAT ARE SPIROGRAPHS DOING HERE?

Someone sit me down and explain this picture to me, because I'm dumb as hell and don't even understand half these 'metrics' images that have been popping up and it infuriates me.

Sumshine, duffmek, Sxep and 2 others like this.

ANGRY-MARINE, May 8, 2016

#12
Kryeed Kryeed Ordinate

ANGRY-MARINE said: ↑

Did we really need metrics to confirm this? The Sorcerer has always been shit. The sword has been shit, the spells have been shit, and the revive has been shit.

Speaking of the metrics:

Who the fuck is this for? Someone sit me down and explain this picture to me, because I'm dumb as hell and don't even understand half these 'metrics' images that have been popping up.
Click to expand...

lets sit down, then. Though I agree it is needlessly silly.

Basically the figure shows... 'rescue' mechanics, whatever the hell those are.

You got some members providing aid to many people, members being provided aid by many people, lone wolves and leeches (sort of).

Take CSM9 and SM6, the solo floating orbs. they don't help and are not in turn helped by anyone.

SM4 and CSM11 are being aided by many forces, which may (or may not, no context) mean they're the tanky front-runners.

then you have SM2 and CSM 8 providing help to many different people. Either they're helpful marines and pick buddies up or the support class healing them.

This seems to suggest LSM are running together and patting each other's backs for moral support while chaos rallies behind 3 or 4 powerful champions for some ass-stomping.

please note this is ONE match and in this match the LSM win, so we have no clue if winners use the web pattern or if it's LSM exclusive (because apoth) or just their jam.

...the middle one is... well just a clusterfuck of nonsense.

EDIT: shameless plug for one of my posts dissecting the figures, helps explain things as I read them.

Kryeed said: ↑

to counter Grig's stance that the team cohesion chart shows things counter to the forum posters saying LSM are by and large less cohesive. The cell there for LSM is nice and rounded, barring a few outliers and a few leeches. Unfortunately we don't really know HOW these arrows interact with each other. It's like saying "statistically one in three statistics happen to be wrong". No context, no details, no nothing.

So lets cobble together what little we know: This was one match. This one match LSM (pictured left/in black) happened to win. That kill's network thing is just a magic eye trick disguised as data and a real clusterbomb of nonsense.

What we have to ask: Do all winning teams looks like the left pictured group? How many very, very, very new people were involved? Why do LSM have an extra dot? Are these arrows about healing, reviving, giving ammo/medkits, assists, covering fire, high-fives? If it is about healing mostly, it's no wonder LSM looks like a web when their healer is able to multi-task and help a small squad when sorcs have to tether to a single ally (i suppose supporting the linear progression here). why just a sample size of one? granted one of each is still a terrible snapshot but at least we could compare/contrast.

Moving on from that, why are only a few of the lines on multiple graphs seen with no name? Only LSM and CSM foot-soldier then MoN and Apoth. anyone wanting to know data about JPA, Devastator, non chaos support, non chaos assault, ect. are left with nothing but baseless squiggly lines. Hell, they didn't even make multiple strands different colors so we could maybe guess.

This shows KDR which, as many have said is not key to victory. Capturing points is the biggest thing. Barring that we don't know the sample size, the method of Kills in KDR, the method of death in KDR, how many of these MoN actually used their capping ability, what class killed the MoN the most (or weapon). Maybe they have a higher KDR because they survive longer? too little context, it feels like cherry-picking data just to keep us busy.

frequency. Does it count default lodouts, does it mean classes who die faster get picked more frequency, does it account for scenarios like the SS makes most infantry weapons (and heavy bolter) a joke and CSM field melee specialists to counter them? We don't know.

Though having the frequency of winning in this form is weird (as it is binary), that's whatever.

we could have used things like: X class chose Y loadout most often, followed by Z and A. and their kills, seeing as the killed person sees their executioner's method of gibbing them.

I'm curious how this (pictured above) holds true when the heat map suggests it's never that close and never that close for LSM.

so, this thing. what is frequency? Total damage done? The downing shot came from X? the killing shot came from X? Also from the original post from this it says essentially the SoC warp power doesn't get counted often on account of poison being weird. Does the same hold true with the Narthecium, as it has potent poison as well? are default loadouts factored in? I would have liked to see some filters like... 'Rank 1/2/3/4/5 uses X loadout/weapon the most'.

Beyond all the questionably useful statistics, the way it was presented is a bald faced attempt to justify their last few patches. That's neither right nor wrong, just an observation. They pick the names up like MoN on KDR and percent picked but the only other things are standard 'for scale' and the one low outlier. With the weapons choice, we're likely shown so much because they justify the quad buff/nerf. Inclusion of vehicle weapons and the quad guns seems weird and muddies the point of this. you don't pick a vehicle's heavy bolter, you use it because you're already in one and don't want to die.

I just ask if the community is to be included with raw data, make it stuff we can comment on and give feedback/suppositions to. Not data that makes us guess what 2/3rds even mean.
Click to expand...

Sxep and XHopliteX like this.

Kryeed, May 8, 2016

#13
Celestia Celestia Prefectus

Kryeed said: ↑

lets sit down, then. Though I agree it is needlessly silly.

Basically the figure shows... 'rescue' mechanics, whatever the hell those are.

You got some members providing aid to many people, members being provided aid by many people, lone wolves and leeches (sort of).

Take CSM9 and SM6, the solo floating orbs. they don't help and are not in turn helped by anyone.

SM4 and CSM11 are being aided by many forces, which may (or may not, no context) mean they're the tanky front-runners.

then you have SM2 and CSM 8 providing help to many different people. Either they're helpful marines and pick buddies up or the support class healing them.

This seems to suggest LSM are running together and patting each other's backs for moral support while chaos rallies behind 3 or 4 powerful champions for some ass-stomping.

please note this is ONE match and in this match the LSM win, so we have no clue if winners use the web pattern or if it's LSM exclusive (because apoth) or just their jam.

...the middle one is... well just a clusterfuck of nonsense.

EDIT: shameless plug for one of my posts dissecting the figures, helps explain things as I read them.
Click to expand...

the middle one shows who downed who along with rescues. You can see which player affected which.
(Man space marine 1 got stomped on)

Celestia, May 8, 2016

#14
Kryeed Kryeed Ordinate

Celestia said: ↑

the middle one shows who downed who along with rescues. You can see which player affected which.
(Man space marine 1 got stomped on)
Click to expand...

how is that helpful in any way. we don't know the class or scenario. also SM14 seems new too

Kryeed, May 8, 2016

#15
Mornek Mornek Well-Known Member

Kryeed said: ↑

This seems to suggest LSM are running together and patting each other's backs for moral support while chaos rallies behind 3 or 4 powerful champions for some ass-stomping.
Click to expand...

This seems how apoths revive their team, look at SM2, SM5, SM10, SM11 etc. Injections makes this connections so weblike, remember SM playing during matches.

Mornek, May 8, 2016

#16
Kryeed Kryeed Ordinate

Mornek said: ↑

This seems how apoths revive their team, look at SM2, SM5, SM10, SM11 etc. Injections makes this connections so weblike, remember SM playing during matches.
Click to expand...

that's part of the problem. they made the metric that could cover a lot of terms, plus no classes are attached to the bubbles. This makes the 'data' we're given to be next to useless and we're going to be speculating the same degree (almost) as before this was released

Kryeed, May 8, 2016

#17
Mornek Mornek Well-Known Member

Kryeed said: ↑

that's part of the problem. they made the metric that could cover a lot of terms, plus no classes are attached to the bubbles. This makes the 'data' we're given to be next to useless and we're going to be speculating the same degree (almost) as before this was released
Click to expand...

I do not really believe that one faction likes more to interaction and revive than another. So rescue network scheme seems more classes and gameplay based.

Mornek, May 8, 2016

#18
Kryeed Kryeed Ordinate

Mornek said: ↑

I do not really believe that one faction likes more to interaction and revive than another. So rescue network scheme seems more classes and gameplay based.
Click to expand...

we just need more context is all, no chance to misinterpret the data

Kryeed, May 8, 2016

#19
Mornek Mornek Well-Known Member

Kryeed said: ↑

we just need more context is all, no chance to misinterpret the data
Click to expand...

MORE DATA FOR THE DATA GOD

Kryeed likes this.

Mornek, May 8, 2016

#20

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