True, I forgot about icons. Still most Chaos players are either sorcs or raptors with occasional ranged on defensive situations. Loyalists usually have more balanced players.

Would be nice to see more assaults and less raptors and sorcs.

GAs have always been a staple of the CSM force. They can cap, they can melee just as well as the JPA, and they tend to stick with a Sorc more often than a JPA (and vs versa) They also pack well (like an Ork mob). In fact, a force without at least a few isn't really going to do well. MoN on one is pretty scary, run for your life if you see one with MoK. It kinda depends on who they're fighting and where - but don't underestimate them - my favorite build with my CSM is Kharn with a MoK, a Chainaxe with xtra damage and some bonus hp - I'll get a plasma pistol eventually. I easily get 20+ kills a game, and I've had as many as 19 executions after not playing Chaos for... 5 months?

Edit: We also tend to see much different force compositions: Skirmish (15 players) CSMs run about 4 GAs, 4JPAs, 2 Sorcs, 2 Tacticals(one almost always has a plasma gun), and 3 Heavy weapons (2 Plasma Cannons and an Autocannon). Obviously with some variation but thats about the average I encounter.

That would be the "FoTM" rerollers that cant be bothered to play LSM and scream "X is op" whenever they loose.By any means do not mistake these people for the actual CSM playerbase.
And by the way what is scary about MoK?Its practically useless if you counter him with proper RPS if melee and does not LS enough if ranged.

You're assuming you're going to counter him in melee. Nothing's scary when you're already beating it...

But it's a great teacher (a harsh one at that) as to how to melee in this game. Do it wrong, you die. But it's the only melee class that can easily take on multiple enemies (there's a lot of skill involved here too though) and come out on top. Hint: hitting multiple enemies at once stacks the hp gain. Like any other melee class, if you're in the LoS of a ranged class, you'll need to figure out how to get out of it or close in, and nothing's better to learn what range is best to engage or break than the MoK who is sustained by getting into CC with the enemy.

For noobs and vets alike I highly praise the MoK for being a great way to teach players how to melee, receive the instant reward of a giant chunk of hp you steal from the enemy upon hitting them, and punishing you for making poor decisions/reactions both on your way to, and within melee. Do it right, you'll dominate, do ut wrong you'll notice it right away. (and learn from it)

People keep crying about class limits but they need to be there to balance this pile of shit game. That's it, end of discussion. You can't have an entire army of apothecaries on tabletop and it just wouldn't function anyway even if you could. Or Heavy Bolters or JPA's etc. Insurgency (another shooter game) has both PvE and PvP where classes are limited and it works BEAUTIFULLY. You only get a limited amount of snipers and most of your team is composed of rifle type classes. Sure, you don't always get to play what you want but that is GOOD. You play what the team needs cuz that is how good games function. You need balance.

Otherwise you get what we currently have which is trashy garbage JPA and healer spam. Impossible to do anything. The least this game could do is give spamming one type of unit an extreme disadvantage but for how strong melee is currently and how good healer type classes are, it doesn't work. You can have an entire team of JPA's and Support/healer and win eez, nothing else required. Its just faceroll easy cuz melee is a joke in this game currently.

If the melee classes actually had that disadvantage where they were more durable but had more trouble closing the distances, then we could talk. But it doesn't look like they're going to so class limitations are a great easy fix in the mean time so we don't have to deal with this garbage.

Game is dying and bleeding players in the mean time.

I tried this Kharn build today and it was so much fun. But it is either very situational for tight indoor fighting or I wasn't very good at it.

Respawn, run to B point from A. Managed to get in melee and a devastator teammate blew me (few times same guy) with his charged plasma.
Wait 15 seconds to respawn. Run all the way again and got attacked by enemy devastators.

It was enjoyable when I had some covers and with proper dodging taking multiple enemies at once was great.

But it felt too much work compared to jump assault. With a raptor I can reach faster to points, get in cover easily avoid vehicle and devastator fire only by jumping and catch eldars and other jump assaults easily.

My only downside with raptor is, I have to stick with Slaanesh for jumpack bonus and I really don't like him/her/it.

I know we've went through this already, but capping is really not a reason to pick TA over Raptor.

There was this obnoxious Eldar player where i went to play WH40K tabletop, so we agreed to hold a game on a saturday.

I deployed nothing on my side of the Table, the guy playing Eldar was quite puzzled as he went first and had pretty much nothing to fire upon, second turn i teleported in all my Space Wolf Terminators armed with Cyclon Launchers/ Thunder Claws/Chainguns, he died kicking & screaming that round.

We never held a rematch so see even having no diverse army can actually work in Tabletop

What the fuck are you people talking about! Capping points is the only way to win the game currently!
Winning a game nets you and extra 50%+ Exp/RQ bonus.
Capping classes like tacticals are THEE most important class not only for winning but for getting EXP.
The Flying classes are mobile but have to come in close for a kill they can be ranged out tho.
The heavy ranged weapons from the heavy ranged classes do a nice job at picking them off at long to medium long range.

The ariel strikes from the sky are fairly easy to dodge the farther away they are incoming.
Sure they will catch people off guard and get a kill but they will not be able to go to a point in capture it rendering allot of there mobility ineffectual.

The game is not about kills its about tactics and time. Whoever does what when the best way possible.

If the game had perfect performance this would work allot better for me and allot of other people but as of right now I only run the game at 30-40 FPS with constant stuttering and second freezes.

Bitch when you have a fully build character so you can have a full round experience then come back and say what you think needs balanced after you spent a few weeks thinking about it and not a few hours or days.

Then you can have experience with all the character classes properly like Ground Melee with shields, AOE/Single Target stuns, and Heavier Equipment because they do have that over the aerial mobility classes.

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ALSO ON THIS NOTE:
MELEE HEALING IS A CHOIR
ITS BUGGY ITS HARD TO HEAL PEOPLE IT TAKES FOREVER AND RESETS ALLOT FOR NO REASON ALONG WITH THE TARGETING ISSUES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLSPLSPLS
make it so the melee healers do not have to cast they can just run up and shank them and go about there business or at least provide an option that heals less that allows this because its such a choir compared to the other healer. The other 2 factions get mobile ranged healers this in its self needs to be thought about in comparison to what your expecting from the other factions healers.
Also the other faction healers get powerful spells so could you maby consider looking at ways to make them more equal but possibly different.

They really have to melee to heal and cast and the targeting is worse at that then the other factions ones on top of this they don't have the same offensive benefits as the others.

CHILDREN OF RAGE GO TAKE YOUR FUCKING DRUGS OR WHATEVER YOU DO FOR FUN. PLAY THE GAME ALLOT MORE THEN REALLY THINK ABOUT SOMETHING FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME AND COME BACK AND GIVE YOUR NEW FOUND WISDOM
oh and heres a tip heavy weapon classes have a guns that can 1-3 shot you you didnt hear that from me but maby try that and camp the healers that really are not op and the fliers who are not op either.

Also to note Im not sure about the faction specifics but the bases classes themselves are ok.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE OPTION TO USE TELEPORTERS THO BY SWITCH JETPACKS TO THEM OR ON SOME NEW CLASS