To be honest the Plasma Cannon and Autocannon spam has only become a problem since they nerfed the HB into the ground and out of it's niche. People didn't cry about either very vocally until the HB "spam" ended.
add onto that that grav gun conceptually isnt very different from PC ... it wont have any effect on the strategy types LSM can bring to the table, LSM still has no survive ability toughness may look worthless on the surface but its actually not ..... chaos can actually break through and get damage reduction all the way up to tier 3 pen weapons which has a drastic effect on thier TTL thier rank 2 MoN(150LP for 35 toughness) is more LP efficient for TTL than the loyalist relic armor which is 500LP for the same toughness and 25 hp ..... i dont recall offhand if orks have access to toughness items but if they have access to at least one +35 toughness cheap LP item then the 50hp is actually a lot more HP than you think it is if every hit is doing less damage throughout thier entire health pool ... Njord makes a very valid point .... LSM's most suffering classes are its assaults and tacticals, sure chaos has the same wepaons and armor but for 150 LP they can guarantee if im not packing a maul or up they survive more hits than i do and if im going maul or higher my defense has to suffer .... that 50 Health is a 16% increase in EHP without toughness ..... you put a marine in a situation of having 10% damage reduction (artificer vs first tier weapons and an ork that ork is gaining more from that 10% being compared to 350 vs 300 so as toughnes escalates that health advantage grows .... The lsm need weapons THAT FILL NEW ROLES we need guns for flushing, cover deny(for non HW classes) we need ways to make tactical more viable in close quarters or a way to cap a point from 15M away if we are going to keep them absolutely useless in CQC ... Asartes Shotgun, fix the stalker bolter ..... asartes grenade launcher, smoke grenades to screw up heavy weapons positions, theres a pile of things we could use to add tactical depth ..... you think your tired of plasma and apoth spam ..... how do you think the faction that has no other play choice feels ?
Orks were designed (literally by the old ones) to kill Necron and C'Tan. This thread just reeks of the lack of understanding of the WAaaagggghh! . Orks are the most psychically gifted and pure being in the galaxy. They can not be corrupted by chaos and they subconsciously produce a Gestalt Psychic feild of which they refer to as Waaaaaggghh! The mere belief of a warboss that he is immune to bolter fire and his boys can shrug it off to a lesser degree gives them a nigh impenetrable psychic barrier they barely even know of. You would have to convince the warboss a bolter can tear through his boys before it becomes effective as a weapon. They were engineered this way to combat the Necron and the psychic star bastards know as the C'Tan over 60 million years ago. It is funny how everyone accepts the durability and strength of a Necrontyr. But fail to realize orks were made to destroy them and hence saved the galaxy long before the emperor of mankind fell to his own son and left his followers with the chaos corrupted lectitio Divinitatus to learn from. I would not be surprised if the LSM gives birth to the 5th chaos god through the corrupted worshiping of there now (in the 41st M.) dying God Emperor. If you don't know the lore google it I suppose.
Ehhhh..techinically it was Orks ANCESTORS(which could have been way different than Orks we have now, at the very least they didn't sound so violent and always fighting) and the Eldar working together to beat Necrons and C'tan. Also, side note, how did the Eldar birth a Chaos God with their psychic potential and wipe out 90% of their race but when Orks create Gork and Mork there's no consequence? (I have to assume that Gork and Mork did not exist before Orks were around, then again the warp is weird so....eh).
Yeah, it's almost as if autocannon's dmg, accuracy, overheat and ammo wasn't nerfed at all along with heavy bolters!
Halt right there. Actually no, Orks are resistant to the taint of Chaos but are not at all immune and indeed partially help feed it. (See: Khorne.) To be honest the AC needs a slight tweak but the HB needs a lot of the nerfs on it reversed because it has indeed fed the current melee heavy meta quite extensively.
Yes, true the Krork Could have been vastly Stronger than the Orks of today and they were enthrall to the old ones as far as lore knows (Which most Krork Knowledge comes from the necrontyr codex) . However in Ork Physiology they grow stronger when a stronger enemy is presented and they have been fighting LSM,CSM,Nids,Necron,Eldar (and all other races not in this game) the whole time. At least 11k years for LSM and 10k years for CSM. So they may hve not gotten much stronger , but I doubt they got much weaker. As far as Gork and Mork, I have to assume they only exist because Orks say they do. The collective will of a psychic race given an intangible form.
