I think a cool way for them to do the warp spider teleportation mechanics would be instead of just going directly from point A to point B like generic teleportation, they 'phase' out and then move really fastly and can phase back in, if you want to see an example of what I'm talking about just search up: Natural Selection 2 Fade Gameplay. I think it would be a cool and unique interpratation of teleportation.
Let us not judge units by stats in tabletop, stick closer to lore. And again, with a wave of a programmer's finger, the most useless class or unit can become viable, if not OP. As for me, I would find flying and jumping having more joy than warping. Just in terms of feelings. Actually I think that SH would make a great synergy for AV purposes. If we won't see Rangers at the start, Swooping Hawks actually may perform as snipers for Eldar.
That isn't entirely true. While we can't make firm judgements about the Power of units in EC by drawing from their TT counterparts we can get a rough gauge of their role and their relative power compared to other units. For instance we know that Swooping Hawks will not be close combat troops, they will not have great armor and they won't have ranged weapons as powerful as, say a Dark Reaper's. Now I'm sure that playing a Swooping Hawk would be fun, but my concern isn't wholly with individual enjoyment, it's with the way in which unit roles complement each other and how they together make for an effective army. Simply put, We need a troop type that can get behind the enemies front line and into dug in emplacements to neutralize heavy weapon troopers in advance of an assault. All the other armies have Jump assault troops that can achieve this by engaging the Heavy Weapon troopers in H2H combat, they are the rock to blunt the Heavy trooper's scissors. The Eldar however don't have an equivalent unit, instead we have troop transports (which can be countered by heavy weapon troops), stealth assault troops (Striking Scorpions) that aren't likely to be effective enough to manage the job since we can safely assume that they won't have rogue style invisibility, which leaves Warp Spiders. Warp Spiders can actually fill that role partly through ambush and surprise, partly through getting close to their targets (if not in H2H), Swooping Hawks cannot.
It is true that warp spiders would make for a better close-range class, but I wouldn't mind swooping hawks at all. Throwing grenades is fun to do and to watch. And so anyway... I don't know how OP could teleporting be compared to flying or jet packs, but I would still say hawks before spiders. In the end, neither of them is like an assault marine nor a scout (rangers and even striking scorpions are closer to scouts), but flying would be easier to fit in with jetpacks of other races, and hawks make for good mid-range rapid firing units. No point underestimating them even if they would be the worst aspect warrior in TT.
If you want to eliminate defences beforehand then surely flying above an emplacement and dropping grenades all over it before shooting it to death will do...
1. You are assuming that fortified emplacements would have no roofs to mess up aerial grenade targeting. However your standard Space Marine style bunkers do, they also typically have doorways to allow assault units to charge the occupants. Bunkers and buildings of this kind are such a common feature in the TT game that I would be amazed if EC didn't also have them. 2. Jetpack assault units, being obvious from a distance, in the open without cover (airborne) and an obvious threat to Heavy weapon troops are clearly a priority target. Since SH are easily spotted (due to the wings), are likely to have a large hitbox (again due to the wings) and don't have the armor or toughness of other races Jump troops they aren't likely to be able to get close enough in large enough numbers to deal their damage unless they are crazy fast, which raises balance issues - as I'll cover later. 3. Shooting it to death?! You cannot expect Swooping Hawks to be able to trade fire with Heavy weapon troops and come out with the better end of the deal, again if they could they would become overpowered. At this point I feel that I should take a moment to explain what it is I mean by 'roles'. Firstly this isn't simply my idea of how things should be, it's a part of the very DNA of tabletop 40k and so I fully expect it to remain the case in a computer game adaptation, furthermore it follows on from such basic questions as "What armor types do that unit's weapons deal best against?", "What armor do they have", "How fast are they?", "How do they move", "What range do they fight at?" e.t.c. Factors that are so fundamental to 40k as to make them the bedrock of the game. You see battlefield roles are somewhat like the rock, paper, scissors of your typical 'holy trinity' MMO, they determine what place a unit has in an army in terms of it's function. Heavy Weapon troops for example are THE uber shooty units, but are typically bad at H2H to compensate, which is why they are countered by H2H troops and surprise attacks. Their role is ranged heavy fire support. Swooping Hawks by virtue of their weak armor, high speed, AOE grenades and good range are pretty much designed to be light harassment units. Why would Swooping Hawks be OP as Heavy weapon troop counters? As I mentioned earlier by allowing Swooping Hawks to act as an anti-Heavy troop type (effectively changing their battlefield role) they would also necessarily become overpowered against Assault troopers and Tactical troopers. This is obvious since if their mobility and ranged damage combined allow them take out specialised ranged firepower (HW troops) units without recourse to exploiting their weakness (their ineffectiveness in close combat) or offsetting a strength (their ranged damage) in what amounts to a head on assault, then they can easily overwhelm and destroy the other unit types. Clearly you would need a unit type that can exploit a weakness of Heavy weapon troops and/or counter an advantage in some way for it to act as an effective counter to that unit type without it becoming OP. Which brings me to the obvious question... Why wouldn't Spiders become overpowered in this role? Well as I see it they can score kills against Heavy weapon troops because they can get close enough to them (exploiting a weakness) while avoiding incoming fire (offsetting an advantage) to make use of weapon deadzones, plus they have weapons that are effective at taking out well armored troops at a close range. This is of-course assuming that heavy weapons would have minimum ranges (Deadzones), which I feel is a reasonable assumption since that is how you can balance them against Assault units - after all in TT you wouldn't expect a trooper to be able to fire a Lascannon or Heavy Bolter while in H2H combat, so it's safe to assume that this too will carry over to EC. Other race's Assault units can operate by being able to take enough fire on the chin while closing to H2H range to allow their surviving compatriots to mop up the Heavy weapon troops. Spiders on the other hand close the distance relatively safely, and only come under fire once there, so the scales balance. Marines lose troops on the way there but once there can deal the hurt safely due to being in H2H combat with their target. Spiders get there safely but once there come under fire from the Heavy Trooper's allies since they are far enough away from their targets for friendly fire to be less of an issue (thank god they have heavy armor for Eldar eh!). They are kept in balance by the simple fact that they fall flat when facing off against Assault and Tactical troops which can engage them in H2H (which they traditionally suck at) before their jump packs have time to recharge. This is risky due to the fact that their weapons place them dangerously close. It's not even as though they can kite the enemy since they are slowed down by their MEQ armor, large weapon and bulky Jump generator.
You could just have broken it into very basic detail Swooping Hawks - Flying snipers that can drop grenades Warp Spiders - Teleporting close combat unit The problem with spiders is implementing the mechanics and i am not against them they are an awesome unit (which i will use myself if they make game) also you have Banshee's and Scorpions for CC so would you not sooner have the addition of a sniper class that can get to high vantage points over a 3rd CC unit
They are closer to a flying tac marine or dire avenger, the lasblaster is a rapid fire low damage weapon, not a high damage low rof high accuracy.
I could, but I thought I should at least try to explain why what units are capable of defines the roles they have in order to make it perfectly clear why Swooping Hawks can't act as counters to Heavy Weapon troopers. If that all seems too basic and obvious to you ... good on you. Also 3rd CC unit? Spiders aren't a CC unit, they are a teleporting unit with a powerful but very short ranged weapon. They suck hard at CC - which is why I said that they are countered by Tac Marines and Assault troopers. That doesn't mean that Banshees of Scorpions couldn't fit the anti-heavy role, but they lack the mobility to handle it well and if their special abilities were made capable of filling the gap (Banshee scream / Scorpion stealth) then they would risk their abilities straying too far from the lore. Spiders are virtually custom made to fill those shoes, which is partly why I'm such a strong advocate for them.
