Discussion in 'Eldar' started by BrentEllison, Jun 13, 2014.
NOT IF MY BOYZ DAKKA YOU FIRST LETS GO!
GET 'IM BOYZ! I'LL SHOW YOU WHOZE 'DA BOSS AROUN' 'ERE!
Harlequins do not wear waystones or need an infinity circuit, another deception from the Rillietann ; p
What do they do without waystones when they die then?
So, let me get some things off my chest.
@Galen - While you may be right on some people spinning wild theories about p2w (especially since Miguel talked at lenght about how the founder content will be implemented; see his example about 50dmg/30sec vs. 100dmg/60sec), you have to keep in mind, that it was the misleading info from the newsletter that got people riled up. You're blaming people here for whining? Fine. But be aware that their whining came from a convoluted message from the devs. The devs explained themselves, and people stopped whining, so as far as I'm concerned, the case is closed and it seems you're just looking to argue just for the sake of arguing. Keep it constructive, eh?
@luciasar00 - I can understand your perspective a bit more, since I got pissed off with newsletter as well. But you do realise that calling people 'peons' will not help you to get your point across? Stay on the issue, not on the person, yes? Try to understand what Galen was trying to say, no matter how agressive was his statement. And, maybe to your suprise, you may realise, he is right to some degree.
@Sentaph - Just so happens I worked at Customer Service as well. It suprises me then, how you perceive the whole situation. First of all, if the players are customers here, you should understand that there are certain market parties that have to be treated with limited trust - like insurance companies, banks, short-term money-lenders and, yes, game developers too. Just take a look what has been recently done with the Warhammer franchise. Are you familiar with titles like 'Storm of Vengeance' or 'Space Hulk'? No? Then take a look. Maybe you'll understand why people tend to assume the worst when it comes to Warhammer.
Secondly, no one is treating devs as less than human. Yeah, people got excited, but no one has been offensive towards the devs. It's suprising to see someone who has experience in Customer Service, who is at the same time so easily offended. People will be paying real, hard-earned money for the game, so don't be suprised they want to know what they can expect.
Let me give you an example of what just happened - imagine you hear a cheerful tune of a ice cream van coming down your street. A kid gets out, with his pocket money in hand and the guy in the van tells him: "Sorry, I don't have any ice cream, but could I interest you in a 20-inch dick-on-a-stick? It's the newest model, eh? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink?". And you're blaming the kid for crying? Because I would've told the guy: "Stop driving an ice cream van and get a job in politics".
Anyway, the jist of my blather is - don't be so eager to judge others. Especially in an aggresive, condescending manner. Try to understant your 'opponents' point of view, instead of trying to kick his teeth in (unless you're an Ork, of course). Who knows? You might just change your opinion
I'm not sure what was that misleading about the newsletter. There was a picture of an Outcast, labelled as a Founder hero. There is an Outcast Founder hero.
I think you're a bit eager to judge me as well, as I wasn't calling anyone out on here just as I a stated. I've simply gotten tired of the way all early access forums always devolve into childish antics. So far the EC forums have been great, but there's a large potential for things to go south when we have 18+ months to go. People start getting restless. There most certainly have been comments on these forums already attacking the devs. And outside these forums its much worse
I think that judging these devs on the works of entirely unrelated devs does them a disservice. Besides, if we're going to take into account the Space Wolf game, why aren't we also taking into account the Dawn of War games? What can you possibly hope to accomplish by always assuming that the devs are always doing the worst thing possible? If we want them to be transparent (again, directing this at the larger community even outside this forum and not anyone in particular), why would constantly treating them as liars make them more transparent? Sure, you may squeeze more answers out of them in the short term. I'm not attacking anyone with that, but I genuinely would like to see some discussion on the topic. After all, creating a toxic environment will only hurt both sides in the long term and the effects will be multiplied by this being Massively Multiplayer. I don't see why it makes me "easily offended" to expect both sides to be adults about this. The fact that you think labeling a picture of an Outcast Founders hero as an Outcast Founders hero to be equal to tricking a kid into your van in order to molest him seems... a bit disproportionate.
The gist of my blather is that each of us is responsible for how this community progresses. I completely understand that we've all been burnt by games before. But getting cynical and distrustful isn't going to make things better. Either relax and take things as it comes, or maybe check out for 16 months or so. After all, if you don't mind skipping some beta testing, there's actually no reason to purchase a Founder's pack more than a few weeks in advance. I know I won't be dropping money directly on the 25th.
Well, that's better, Sentaph.
The misleading part was, that it wasn't clear what it would mean, that the Ranger will be a Founder Hero class. People thought that the Ranger will be founder-exclusive class, and I don't blame them for that.
I'm not eager to judge you. And I can understand from where you're coming from, since I can wholeheartedly agree with you on the state of early access forums. I just think, that the majority of people here weren't attacking the devs nor treating them as less than human.
I also agree that it's a disservice to BE to compare them previous devs who had their hands on the Warhammer franchise, but that's just how two of us see things. I can understand some people being distrustfull. And, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. I think the BE devs are aware of this as well and I doubt they're offended by some whining on the forums.
No one is treating them as liars. The newsletter was vague and people started to spin theories, that's it. I'd also like the discussion to be on topic, but you do realise, that for that to happen we needed more info? We got more info and kudos to the devs for that.
As for the toxic environment - we already agreed on how early access forums tend to look like. There's always some minority of users who will provide the toxicity. There's nothing to be done about that. However, I think this forum is still far from being toxic. Even in spite of people being quite vocal on demanding calrification on some issues.
What makes you so 'easily offended' is exactly what you wrote. You expect both sides to be adults, when it's absolutely certain that there will always be some immature people (sometimes literally immature), who are posting on the forums. That's the internet for you Sure, each of us is responsible for keeping the forums on the level. You're right. But I think, you're being far too cautious here, since I haven't noticed any trolls running around here so far.
Forgive me my exaggerated example, but exaggeration tends to help me to get my point across. Think about what I said. It's all about failed expectations.
Other than that, I don't think I'll be checking out, nor anyone should. BE devs said over and over again, that they would like to have input from Warhammer fans. I'm sure they're smart enough to care for constructive opinions and I'll make sure to be as constructive as I can.
As for dropping money on the 25th, I think I'm with you on that.
Sentaph-Well said! I mean, the devs don't HAVE to be talking to us, they're perfectly entitled to keep to themselves and then drop it all on us in 18 months.
Most devs don't talk to their future customers, that's why we have some many shitty games on the market I wish there would be more open minded people like guys from BE.
Oh GOD yes. That would be awesome.