You don't even really need coordination to win if you are defending. If enough people start with AV and keep on it even when gates go down. You can win pretty much any of the fortress maps without them even taking A. Rhino's and vindicators/equivs are the key to success in attacking so there for they should be the number 1 priority for defenders. Its more about common sense than coordination.
Defending any position or installation should ALWAYS work in favor of defenders. The entire siege capture process and the associated dynamics are counter intuitive and go against everything you'd ever read or experience as far as laying siege to a fortified position. 1. Ability to bypass the entire outer wall 2. A small hand full of attackers "ninja'ing" or Capturing some magical "thingy" inside the fort turns off defenders ability to spawn on outer walls or from same building as magical "thingy". We should see a more proper phase by phase attack sequence like "Operations" in Battlefield 1. Phase I -Attackers must breach their way into tunnels via 10 to 15 melta bombs per breach point prior to gaining access to "bypass" spots. When a bypass point is breached defenders get audio and visual alerts. -Once "rat holes" are opened up attackers must secure 2 out of 3 new objectives that are located atop the outer wall. -Attackers must also destroy one of the two gates -Once attackers have secured 2/3 objectives on outer walls and 1/2 of the gates ONLY then do the next set of two objectives become open for capture. Phase II -Attackers must destroy defender vehicle spawns via the equivalent damage 15 melta bombs can deliver(can use Vindicator, Multi melta, etc) and capture both spawn points. Once all 3 objectives are complete only then can attackers move onto inner sanctum. Phase III -Battle for inner sanctum works much the same way as what we have now. On a side note attackers are missing vital aspects of any 40K siege. 1. Missing Drop pods and other aerial insertion capabilities that can put troops behind the walls. 2. Missing the ability for squad leaders to call in Close Air Support(CAS) and artillery. 3. Missing super heavy siege cannons that can actually lob rounds atop fortress walls.
Hold the wall or get fucked, thats all I ask. Both the defenders and attackers should have to DO SOMETHING to win a game. If the defenders just put on a podcast, sip some tea, and sit there with a heavy bolter for half an hour they will rack up double digit kills and probably never lose a single fortress defense unless they are up against an organized and decent stack. On the flip side the attackers have to siege the walls, and win it which an organized defense can hold the walls they are decently defensible in and of themselves (even if most choose not to). Then they have to lose their forward command which is again pretty defensible as the attackers are reliant on transports for spawns and are funneled into your afk killzones. Finally they have to assault a fortress who has had its walls destroyed, its forward command destroyed, and realistically can have artillery pieces on it but for "reasons" the artillery can't really effect the final base, transports can't get close, and all the reinforcements from you defeated walls goes back to your main command point for "reasons". The attackers have to fight up hill, in the snow, both ways as it were. They have zero advantages even after doing things that "should" be advantages blowing up giant fucking holes in a fortresses walls and destroying their wall garrisons SHOULD BE huge advantages instead its actually REWARDING FAILURE of the defenders. Thats really all I want... I want the defenders to not be able to AFK to victory, and I also want the attackers to actually have to do stuff. If the attackers can destroy a fortresses walls THEY SHOULD BE REWARDED NOT PUNISHED its really that simple. What "warleader" should be able to hold a fortress after they allowed an army of tanks, transports and artillery to siege and destroy their walls, and lost their forward command/garrison? That should be a fortress effectively rendered defenseless the fortresses "big strong defenses" SHOULD be the walls, it should be the forward garrison/gates... A fortress losing those things should be crippled, not rewarded.
I understand you but if we were attacking a stronghold there wouldn't be 2 or 3 roads inside the wall like on the map were you can bypass the defence but more something like helm's deep, just a wall with no passage and when breaches appears attrition fight to conquer the first fortifications then lay siege to the donjon/main bunker. Because those maps are also attacker friendly by "secret passage" and gates not so strong, it is fair than not used spawns are save on an other point. Had we real fortress, designed to endure then attacker victory would have to be meaningful and tickets lost.
I just had a PERFECT example of this issue. It was LSM vs Orks on the 3 bridge fortress map. For some reason LSM was working together and we pushed in and captured A really fast. Only took down one gate in the process too. We had 20 minutes to assault B we took A so fast. This should have 100% been a one sided landslide of an assault on any other map type. It would be like getting all 3 time extensions right away, or the first 1-2 points in hold the line in 5minutes. Instead because its fortress the defenders got over 200 tickets at B, for 20minutes... At the 10tickets per minute average they had to do NOTHING. Literally defenders can just get up and walk away from the walls and A and just hold B and they can do so AT ZERO PENALTY. We were "punished" for winning A too hard as the attackers. This match took place at around 6:30pm EST with LSM vs Orks (LSM attackers Ork defenders) on the map with the 3 bridges (agnathio?) incase anyone can look that up in their server records and verify just how completely fucking stupid this shit is.
Its all about the mass push into B and getting to the balconies asap. The reason its hard to break B on most fortress maps are snipers on the higher ground. You disrupt that though and you can mop up even with 200 tickets to go.
Ideally, yes. However the game doesn't run on ideals nor 30 players on each team working perfectly together. Typical fortress matches are nothing like that. Your average fortress map is a meat grinder. I already stated on the first page that Free players lacking the jump classes makes Agnathio even more difficult at point B. Without an abundance of Jump class players disrupting the defence what you suggest is does not happen often enough in regular games. If, for just a moment, you can step outside your own game experience and see Free players getting hacked down by a withering hail of fire it would be blatantly apparent. The meat grinder aspect is there, but it is only the attackers on B that are being ground up. Free player attackers have... No jump classes Likely much weaker gear Insufficient experience Insufficient support while moving Limited angles of attack Precarious & limited cover Meanwhile defenders whether Free or paying have... Static positions well supported by heals Abundant cover Abundant back up from nearby team mates TL;DR: Agnathio B is a meat grinder for attackers while even the most borderline competent defenders can shut down all but the most skilled and co-ordinated attacking team. It needs to be a meat grinder for both teams regardless of gear level or free/paying status.
You know I think they went the wrong way by keeping a whole class away from FTP. It's a big reason attacking forts are such a pain when they already balanced the maps around every class being available except now a good portion are locked out of one. A better incentive to pony up 20 bucks in my opinion would be to lock FTP from veterans and the 30k boxes. Basically they can't get the cool weapons or the beefy characters. That might seem pay to win to some people but I think most can agree that veterans aren't that big of a deal and the 30k box weapons/mods are cool but nothing mind blowing. Just anything would be better than keeping one class away from a large portion of the player base that is making the toughest game mode unnecessarily harder.
As for attacking forts I actually managed to win two of them today on Orks it was magical. My first wins for attacking a fort since free to play hit. The boys were already setting up in the B point before A even fell so we could get a foothold before the lines of bolter nerds got set up. Never thought of that before, you're free to assault the back point at will making it much easier for the rest of the boys to get in. Just make sure you take your time and attack them on the walls/around A point first to bleed their tickets out then before you start taking A set up in B to keep the defenders from getting planted inside.
