Problem:
It's been my experience playing this game since it's F2P launch that some siege maps are extremely defender biased, specifically the snow map and the one with the three bridges (Ronan/Agnathio). Post-match chat seems to indicate everyone mutually hates these maps and agrees they're imbalanced.

To be clear I'm talking about public matches. I'm sure the argument can be made that these maps are significantly easier with an organised offensive, but then I'm sure they're easier to defend with one as well. I think it could be argued that the offensive requires more coordination, and thus is less realistic for a random group of players to achieve than a good defense.

Recognition of that defender bias is clearly manifest in the ticket system existing for defense only, but the current values are simply not realistic for the attackers to wear down without flawless play. That leaves the option of capturing the point itself, which is always situated dead center of the defender's high ground kill zone, right next to their spawn (assuming you made it through the entrance alive). I have never seen this happen in a fully populated match on the aforementioned maps.

I think it's perfectly acceptable that the defenders should have strong positions and get more kills. But it's not fun for the attackers for two reasons: first because they'll probably lose, and second because there's so much downtime between deaths. Even during the Ork WAAAGH players need to run at least 10-15 seconds over old ground just to throw their body in the fire all over again.


Solution/TL;DR:
I propose another intermediary point between A and B on both maps situated near the entrance of the final structure. If not, some mechanism should be in place to remove the roadblocks so transports can move up. Either way attackers will be able to kamikaze more often, which is more fun for both sides.

Barring that a ticket re-balance would be best, even if it wouldn't solve the pacing issues.

Thoughts?

(edited in the map names, thanks Forgrim)

This might help with naming maps: https://arkhonareports.wordpress.com/maps/

Personally, Fortress are some of my favourite maps unless I'm wanting one last quick game. They're tough to crack, which makes winning the attack that much more satisfying. The long walk to B can be a right pain, especially in the last minutes with single digit tickets left - but too much shorter and the defenders could be swamped with waves of attackers. Agnathio was like this when you could bring the vehicles right up to the stairs. That said, I think a bit shorter is warranted.

Thanks. Agnathio is the bridges one I was thinking of. The snow map isn't listed there.

Harkus suffers from the long run as well but the many avenues of attack make it more interesting and doable for the attackers.

I agree these maps can be very satisfying to play which is why I'd like to have this discussion rather than just removing them from my queue like many others have.

Now that I'm familiar enough with Ronan to put it up, I haven't had a match to take the screenshot of

I think you have some good points. Moving up the spawn point, while a very good idea for three of the factions seems to place orks at a much higher advantage than the others. I was defending Agnathio (three bridges) and when the WAAAAGH began, we were very nearly overrun, even with the increased run back from trukk spawn to the walls. It was a really cool battle, holding off waves of greenskins, cutting them down with rifle and chainsword. And despite being a PuG, many were on voice chat and I think we had a few guildies and if we didn't have such a coordinated defense, we easily would have lost.

You're right, Orks would benefit more from the change and I don't have any clue as to a workaround. However even now that advantage exists and not just in siege maps, so its not as if this change would introduce a new problem. WAAAAGH is a mechanic that must be balanced against the race's other facets and not the game mode.

WAAAGHS should be terrifying and I'm sure you had lots of fun holding your close victory. Even if it pushes Orks' advantage I'd guess the other races would appreciate their chance at a win on offense as well.

One idea to balance them a little better would be a limitation of the Heavy Archetype amounts spawned during combat. One of the things that makes for imbalance is the sheer number of heavy bolters or autocannons if you are chaos braced on walls that cut down anything that enters the choke points in a blistering hail of fire.

secondly Ronan needs more ways in as does Agnathio. Harkus is really well done with 3 seperate entrances (front and sides) with multiple avenues to push the attack.

Agnathio indeed is a pain in the ass for attackers for the run back from the bridge to the front and also getting resupplied when needed (from transports) etc.

Ronan is just a strange map to me. I really enjoy it but i feel like it needs some more work in terms of its geometry but cannot figure out what exactly it needs to make it fortress-like and defensible yet fairer on attackers also.

The Free version preventing those players from using the Jump classes also poses a problem. It's pretty noticeable on Agnathio and to a lesser extent Ronan & Harkus as well as some other non-fortress maps.

Standard operating procedure for attacking Agnathio is to get Jump units inside B to disrupt the defences. Without enough people jumping in, Agnathio point B strongly favours the defenders.

Give more flanking options and balance is solved for these maps.

Harkus has acceptable flanking and to an extent, so does Anthagio.

I'd like to see more overhead and underground access points to B in all maps.

Ronin could benefit from wall scaling on the left hand side to enter through the hole in the roof for airborne flanking.

Also there is a window three stepped tiers up on the left hand side of Anthagio I dont think anyone knows about where you can jump down on the people overlooking the doorway into B. It is incredibly painful to get to though, you need like 4 to 5 full fuel regens with 4 fuel cells to get up there.

I'm about on those lines. On agnathio they could just move the roadblocks and cover halfway across the bridge, maybe make guard towers 2 stories tall on each side of each bridge at the halfway point for attackers to set up and stage from. This way there's still a deadzone for attackers to cross but it isn't a complete slaughter with no options for the attackers.