Thought I'd make a thread for those of us noticing poor performance issues with Shuriken weapons, which(with one exception) haven't seen a performance increase despite the recent up tuning. Perhaps if @MichaelChan or @NoahWard can spare a moment to step away from the digital forge where they're crafting wargear, we can present a collective and hopefully concise list of our concerns. If anyone has video highlighting the issues please share. The Shuriken Cannon In his recent interview with Zoranthebear, Brent stated (paraphrasing) heavy weapons were intended to have high lethality and that if you were running directly at one or being fired upon at close ranges you should expect to win a trip to the respawn screen. The Shuriken Cannon in it's last permutation performed this function perfectly. At long ranges it took far more shots to kill but at close ranges it was murder without being OP. I think a great deal of complaining by the LSM/CSM wouldn't have been voiced if their equivalent, the Heavy Bolter, was performing the same way(which it should). Currently the Shuriken Cannon underperforms, the firing cone is quite wide when braced and the damage is poor which leads to there being no reason to take it over a Dire Avenger with a Catapult. While I'm glad there are more Dire Avengers in game this leads me to... The Shuriken Catapult Despite the ROF increase I have experienced no change in performance. I cannot tell you how many times I have got the drop on an enemy and had a good 1-2 seconds of firing on them(accurately) before they engaged me, only to die. These were at close ranges too. When I do this with a bolter, I am almost guaranteed the kill. Perhaps there is a hit registry issue similar to the heavy bolter one but less severe? Is the cone of fire still too wide? Or perhaps the damage is still too low. Unfortunately our only capping class is a liability to take into combat unless they're making liberal use of... The Shuriken Pistol This was a pleasant surprise. A result of the ROF increase has made the Shuriken Pistol effectively a sub-machine gun and an effective anti-infantry weapon. What stops this weapon from being OP is due to the ROF increase the magazine empties in a blink of the eye, you only have maybe a second to 1.5 of full auto firing time? If the Shuriken Catapult performed like this it would be fulfilling its roll spot on. However I think to balance the monster usage of ammo, Dire Avengers should carry more magazines rather than higher capacity ones. Having to reload more frequently and make sure your shots are accurate as opposed to spraying everywhere in Orkish fashion not only balances the weapon but thematically fits the accurate and deadly Eldar. Everyone else please share your experiences, concerns, criticisms or counter-points.
Played as DA w normal SC a bit, feels better due to fixed accuracy - you can hipfire on close range and its pretty accurate while aiming. As for for dps - only problems w extra-tough melee guy - you basically cant kill him before he teleports to you across the half of the map w brand new heavy attack. And there s definetly something w hit reg and not only for SC. I sometimes kill ppl who stands on melta range away from target. Its like im playing w 300 ping, but i have 50 top. Ill agree w you about more often reloads and accurate shots, but the mag needs to be increased a bit. By now, you cant kill (or its a very, very problematic) a sorc w a single mag if he heals himself. Thats weird.
I do wonder what is keeping the TLSC and SC from performing at peek efficiency, even after a number of buffs. The fact that both need like half a clip to down a single marine without missing a shot makes me wonder : Perhaps the problem isn't the damage or fire rate of the shurikens weapons, but it's penetration. Nowadays, even fist JPAs are loaded with armor and toughness wargear. We simply don't have a mean to go through all that toughness, hence the feeling of firing wet noodles
Going home now to see what the hotfix did. I definitely agree that recently the DA feels very weak though. There's a part of me that really wants to see Avengers carry 1000's of rounds in a single clip, but I have no idea how they'd balance that.
I don't think that could be balanced seeing as something significant else would have to give like damage, accuracy, penetration, or fall off. Keeping the glass cannon theme, I think high damage but modest magazine sizes could work. You can deal high damage, but to do so you must be accurate, at optimal range, and only have a brief time to do so. It would be very high risk, high reward style of game play. Land your shots and you win, miss and win a free trip to Slaanesh's pleasure palace.
I love the smell of burning consoles in the morning. Maybe replace the mag with overheat mechanic? This idea stucks in my brain since yesterday. Shots to overheat exactly as in the mag, but it will be more rewarding in the situations of single-fire use or hit-and-run. Will made you more mobile and more prepared to encounters due to lack of reloading. And you still cant play "spray n pray".
It definitely could be due to the prevalence of armour and toughness in the game lately.. They're meant to be re-balancing Loadout Point costs quite soon to make the choices all a lot more difficult i.e. you would sacrifice survivability for damage etc. At the moment all that armour and toughness is probably WAAAY too accessible. I'm switching over to Live at the minute so I suppose I'll see first hand. I can't go in to detail about UAT, but I think the accuracy/spread improvements over there are quite good. Guess we'll see how this goes? Brent did say that they would go for a flat damage increase if the RoF and Accuracy/Spread changes didn't fix things.
It isn't really spray and pray if the gun is accurate though. If a fully automatic weapon is accurate while having high rof thats fine. Because then the player is rewarded for dodging around and holding their cross hair on an enemy. Orks are spray and pray. The ol hey he's over there, ok just let me shoot all of the "over there" area and I maight just hit him.
