With them doing a major rebalance to all of the factions who here would like to see more distinction between the standard and big shoota ? What I mean by this would be having the standard shoota be more of a SMG where it's really really good short range and not that great long range while the big shoota would fire a bit slower and do more damage over a longer range more like a assault rifle and just remove the suppression off of it as it honestly isn't noticeable as is. As it stands now the standard shoota is better than the big shoota in most cases just for the simple fact it's cheaper, has larger clip due to drum and actually has less risk while being used in close quarters. It even kinda beats out the big shoota in long distance fights as the suppression it has isn't that much and while a lot of ork players will be very quick to point out "But Dak it has higher penetration" why yes, yes it does but that does not however change the fact it does 2 less damage per shot it actually evens them out. The major difference is the rate of fire and recoil the standard shoota is 480 while the big shoota is 600 and that's why it seems like the big shoota would win out. The problem is the standard can have longer sustained fire rate over a area which actually offers better suppression than the minimal suppression effect of the big shoota as it forces them to take cover till you stop firing to reload. My suggestions. rethink how the 2 shootas work. Shoota Short range High rate of fire 550 rpm with low damage but super high dps overall in short range. *low damage as in 23-24 damage per shot* Less recoil but more spread clips and ammo capacity stays the same. Big shoota Mid range Medium rate of fire around 400-450 rpm with high damage per shot *I'm not saying something in sane like 38 like a bolter more like 30* More recoil but less spread No delay on firing from the hip or turning while firing. No suppression. *damage values are just off the top of my head and I know they are somewhat like what they are on live but this is just for example.* Both weapons would have the base penetration which is 100 coming in the next major patch. As you can see it would give both shoota and big shoota a much more defined role as the big shoota is the clear cut better choice for medium range engagements while the shoota would be the clear winner for close quarters. And on a final note.. I would like the big shoota to sound a bit better currently the standard shoota sounds meaty while the big shoota... not so much. The sound is going to take a back seat in favor of other things for now though. Anyway what do you guys think?
Issue with the big shootah is it's a midget heavy bolter on a fast class, that can defend itself in melee, can cap, and has suppression. One thing I would like for the Big Shootah is greatly reduced spread whilst not moving.
Wun Shootah iz biggah den da otha Evin da daftist ov grots kan see'z dat Datz why'z we'z kallz it da BIG Shootah
I'd love the big shootah to have even more RPM seeing as their storm bolters and bolters got next to no accuracy fall off, whilst we do.
Great idea, those values would make a fine stat baseline for them. With time hopefully we'll see beltfed ammo and twinlinked mods for Big shoota to up both its cost and viability. And kannon and speshul barrel/ammo mods for regular shoota would be nice too, we could use more shoota variation for different scenarios.
If you want to attempt range, Heavy Barrel. (Though the vertical recoil is arguably the same as the Rodeo. I think the barrel brings it up to 2.06. The Rodeo's 2.00 but has 66 extra RPM. The Compensators good for short/mid range. I've never noticed what Horizontal recoil does. reticule expansion maybe? I don't use it, I've never noticed much of a difference when i have. I find the Big Shoota useful for charging as a Shoota Boy. As you can kill vets using this tactic. (I beleive i had the compensator, and the reduced spread per shot grip.) The supression helps, though there's a few weapons it should help against but doesn't, but still. Increasing the RPM (Or less likely, the damage) will be problematic. I can't see it bring brought up to Stormbolter DPS (Though. After the toughness patch, it will, in theory be 120 Pen. It could be 130. I'm not in game atm, what's the Pen difference from Shoota to Big Shoota? When 100 becomes the norm, add the difference and that's the new pen value. In theoryTM) As it does have supression, the trade off does need to be DPS. Though the suppression isn't on part with the Dakka Deffgun. Or the Heavy Bolter.
Imo give the big shoota even higher rof and much more ammo, but also remove the suppression. As for accuracy I think unbraced should be spray and pray tactics capable of suppressing opponents by weight of fire alone but braced it should be devastating.
I pray they never introduce a higher fire rate the ability to brace with the big shoota. It will literally take over the job from a loota using a dakka deffgun as it's their only job is to brace and hold down areas. A better accuracy with slightly higher damage than the standard shoota is all it really needs to give it a proper role as it stands now it's just having a identity crisis as it doesn't know if it wants to be a deffgun or a shoota. The original plan back during alpha was to have the shoota be like a stormbolter high rof low accuracy moderate damage and the big shoota to be the mid range option. They for some reason tacked on a very weak suppression gave it lower damage than a standard shoota with higher penetration thus having the exact same damage per shot as a shoota but they crippled it by giving it the penalty to turning while firing and also the delay on firing.
I've already made it clear to Brent and Mchan that the Big Shoota's going to need a lot of help on it's stats with the upcoming pen/toughness/armor rework and they've agreed. The problem is finding the good niche for it as to not completely overshadow the plain shootas and not be outright better than the Dakka Deffgun. Another issue is that we're still waiting on a lot of mods for weapons, especially our Lootas to make the Dakka Deffgun viable, for instance. As it currently stands the Ace Dakka outperforms it in any way shape or form. Among those heavy weapon mods, Mchan said he will be adding an ammunition mod to the Big Shoota as well ( complete with visual addon of a big belt feed into it , now imagine how cool that'll look on a Tracey Shoota! ). As to what stats that'll add (if more bullets, pen or damage, is tbd ).
But these two are the only ranged weapons which actually ARE distinct. ASC and TLASC are the same thing but with different RoF, ammo capacity and dmg dropoff. Same with Bolter and Storm/Combi bolter. Big shoota is already much better at longer distances, with low dmg dropoff AND suppression while shoota is an SMG. Big shoots is pretty accurate when modded and stationary, while shoota is ideal to run in and daka especially with 100 ammo mag mod.
