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Serious Concern - Will Orks Be Fodder?

Discussion in 'Orks' started by Argentspear, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    I think part of the solution is really to make Orks feel powerful on a very personal level, stealing away the initial thunder of SM's on a sliding scale of brutality and grace, where on one end the Orks are all brute, both sides of SM's are equal parts brutal and graceful, and the Eldar almost entirely grace.

    For example:

    In DoW2:
    From basic units to their Elites, Orks are either Melee Specialists that will make short work of anything that comes in contact with them, or Ranged Brutes that spit Dakka in a hurricane that will burn through just about everything in front of it. The odd unit here and there gives them their odd flavor, but for the most part, the Ork archetype is just as simple as it is effective: get the boyz together and give them a specific target and they'll be unstoppable.

    Take a look at SM:

    Ignore Orks in the campaign and exterminatus, go straight to multiplayer, do not collect bolterporn lore along the way. Here, you find pretty good individual examples of how even the mechanics of the classes could similarly to:

    SM - Heavy Bolter Reduced Heat Buildup + Ammo Reserves = Ork Loota: Although fragile in the open, once dug into cover, nothing short of a ton of c4 is going to get this guy out of it. He can overwatch a point and never reload, out-range most tactical weapons, and only overheat after suppressing an entire army. Multiples of this guy would completely lock down a firing lane.

    SM - Devestator with Artificer Armor + Iron Halo = 'ard boy w/ shield: very difficult to kill is what I'm saying. And not necessarily bad in CC either. (Pretty much exactly as they are in Exterminatus.. only under player control *shudders*)
    SM - Assault Marine (no Jump Pack) with Power Axe + Zeal + Impenetrable = 'ard boy w/ two axes: the unstoppable force sitting behind the immovable object that is the other kind of 'ard boy. Pity the fools that try to CC these guys.

    SM - Storm Bolter w/ Rapid Fire reload = Ork Boy = short to medium range firepower that can even be used very inaccurately at long ranges. The more you have at your disposal, the more effective they can be. (Flashback to DoW - with enough of these, they can honestly be one of the most effective weapons in the game.)

    So there you have it, 4 different ways to explain Orks using pre-existing games that already have tried to at least balance between massive armies of NPC units, and small scale PvP.

    But here's the kicker on top of all of this, and why Orks will not be cannon fodder:

    To work properly, and have a good F2W experience in EC, the Orks will have to be organized differently than the other races in the isolated zones. I predict that Orks will have a special exception in terms of limiting population to zones; meaning that they will always have more players available to field, as was intended since day one. So, in a map that may normally support 20v20, players fighting Orks will find that they'll be against 10 Nobz and an additional 31 F2W guys (a total of 20vs41.) The true crux of balance here is player behavior, since only 10 Orks will be invested in the game, the other 31 boyz are just anyone who wants to fight. But, because they outnumber the other faction, the green tide will do as I said above: gather, and focus on what's fighting them. What's more, is that because of the revive system, unless you completely wipe the Orks out, they'll do exactly as they do in the lore: KEEP COMING BACK, STRONGER, MEANER, AND GREENER THAN EVER!
  2. As much as i love to see 20v41 i dont think it be that dramatic sadly :(
  3. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    It was an example. Still, I think that much of an advantage isn't a technological issue, but a balance one. I'm sure Orks will still have room to deploy more players in a match than anyone else.
  4. Gruk'Lok Blakk Klaw Blakklaw Arkhona Vanguard

    Indeed, It may not be "True Wisdom," but in some sence it is. Although not really giving a shit either, it's effective and even Eldar see it. So yeah, I'd say it's Wisdom, in the sence of they stopped giving a shit, about shit they didn't need to give a shit about, to reach the top.
    Some Eldar thinking about life: "The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude."
    Onomatopoetic likes this.
  5. Krakza Krakza Well-Known Member

    As far as I'm aware, being an engineered race, they never actually cared about anything in the first place. They haven't stopped giving a shit - they just never did!

    I think that's the thing about Orks. They're everything but they're nothing.
    They're dumb as bricks... yet they're intelligent, look at all the machinery and equipment they're creating - recycling even.
    They're not very wise... yet they're wise enough to know what they do and how to do it best.
    They're not a threat, one Ork vs one Space Marine is often a slaughter... yet oh God now that Ork got in a ton of fights and is twice the size of our Space Marine send reinforcements please.

    Yeah I love that quote. Just shows how different things can look if you step back and turn your perspective around. It's something you don't see in Eldar fluff very often (though I haven't read any BL books). Every once in a while I do wonder how it would go down if an Eldar Philosopher started discussing matters from a perspective other than "Eldar are cool, other races pff lmao they suck"
    Blakklaw and Onomatopoetic like this.
  6. Maky126 Maky126 Member

    Orks do ''evolve'' while they fight. They become bigger, stronger and badder with every fight. If someone have read Xenology, it is explained there that a guardsman saw an ork turn from a ''normal'' boy to a massive nob within some weeks (or months, I don't remember). Perhaps ork player could gain little STR/TOUGHNESS bonuses with each level, or something.
  7. Demetri Dominov Demetri_Dominov Arkhona Vanguard

    On the topic of philosophy, I see Orks being Diogenes, the ultimate cynic on all things war. Where as other races scramble and attempt to get the sleekist most tactically effective (whatever) they can, Orks will just bash it in, with fists and a rock if they have to, just as effectively as if they had the orkish equivalent.
  8. Not an option, as you can't gain levels in the game. The different classes can increase the size of the models tho, like when you play Warbosses and Nobs.
  9. Maky126 Maky126 Member

    That's what I say, that the orks should be the only faction that can evolve in that way.
  10. Eh. I don't see that as a good idea. It's propably better to make sure the factions are as equal as possible without it being limiting. If we begin making each faction too unique, it will be very tough to balance the factions - Conventional 40k tabletop wisdom has shown us that c:
    Rokdakgut-rippa likes this.

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