Can't see how it's fine. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but as a Tactical, I simply have no chance in melee against a melee specialist. Simply because Dbash doesn't stun for long enough to even get one fast attack. It used to be that you could punish mindless fast attack spam, but now it seems impossible. You can only stall the fight and hope that a teammate will come and help you. In fact, it seems like enemies who try to play by the RPS rules(like Dbashing when I try to fast attack them) have more risk of dying, since I can use my ranged weapon to kill them while they're in animation. If they just spam fast attacks, this won't happen.
Probably because Witchblades are faster Power Swords, and Power Swords are the best all around melee weapon (besides Rites of Fire and poison, but those are separate issues).
I have to agree with Red. "Normalizing". Basically standardizing game mechanics so they're all the same from faction to faction. All chainswords have the same speeds for both strong and fast attack, all axes have the same speeds, all Dbash have the same stagger duration, all factions cover the same amount of ground with each type of melee attack. Going back to the speeds and distances we tried and tested the 12 months of Alpha prior to launch. I feel we need to go "back to basics" and look to "normalizing" bash duration, attack speeds, rolling/dodge distances, strong attack speeds, fast attack speeds to put everyone back on an even playing field. On the flipside of the coin, it seems that a back peddling Tactical player can roll and shoot faster than a melee player can roll and melee attack. We addressed this problem during Alpha by giving Tacticals a bit of a delay before they can fire AFTER coming out of a roll, but that little delay has been removed. Add to that the removal of the evade/rolling attack for Ground Assaults and melee supports, ranged players now have the advantage in close combat in this particular example. That's a problem though for another thread.
I don't think it's still the case. As you know, I'm an Eldar main and when I was talking about Tacticals I really meant Dire Avengers. In the previous patch, I was able to escape melee by dodging away and then sprinting. But it seems like now melee covers more distance, so even sprinting away doesn't help. So in essence, if I get hit by melee, there is no way I can escape it now. Which would be fine, if Dbash lasted long enough to at least get a fast attack in. Because as it stands, Dbashing is just prolonging the inevitable, not to mention that it still doesn't always work, and the fact that some weapons like Rites of Fire can kill(or nearly kill) in one fast attack, so the price of mistake is huge.
Again with this backpedaling thing. A melee unit with a Chainsword or Power Sword can still mindlessly spam RMB and catch a player walking forward. The distance traveled with RMB spam as a Power Sword is even with the sprint speed of normal Space Marines. That means a player that is backpedaling will only effectively counter anything slower than a Power Sword. One of the reasons you see Eldar melee being so effective is because their knives are as fast as Power Swords, while having slightly longer reach. This, coupled with the already strong melee and Embolden makes Eldar difficult to play against. I blame this trashy RPS system. It doesn't make sense. It works fine when it's a Power Sword or a Chainsword fighting each other. But once you start getting slower weapons like mauls, or trying to balance non-melee dedicated classes into it, things start getting extreme one way or the other. Either melee becomes borderline useless or it's just too good. There hasn't really been a point where it's been even, especially with Eldar/Orks released.
well the problem in my opinion is the melee speed of the diffrent races, i am mostly playing marines and playing against chaos melee class vs melee class is kind of fine cause the counters work but against eldar for example there happens things like we both doing fast attacks and no clang but i get damage or i do a heavy attack and he uses dbash i get stuned by his dbash there the counters dont really work, thats why i would say bring the melee speed of all same tier weapons to the same speed first, same do with dbash and make melee fighting through the races equal
These are all very interesting points, but wouldn't the current system be improved if melee was slowed down for everything? It may even allow the differences in races to be manageable and enjoyable. If melee was slowed down: Increases window for RPS to work correctly Increases time to react to incoming attack, so you are reacting more and pro-acting less Makes failures in current RPS more obvious
As I said. Do you want Lore or Balance? 40k does not play well with both. Eldar are either quick (Lore) or not quick (Balance).
Not sure if this was directed at myself or everyone here. Slowing down melee for everyone will not change the relative difference between races.
Damage is not what makes Banshees what they are. It's their speed. Take that away and make them a watered-down GA will do nothing but piss off the Eldar players to satify the melee system that wasn't designed to accommodate them.
