I never managed to roll out myself, but it sure is nothing that any sane person would ever intend. At least in my book of sanity...
I'm pretty convinced what he meant was that if you're able to roll out when the first hit (The clang portion of it) is intended. What I find to be a bug is that people seem to be able to roll out of it after the KICK portion of it connects. I think the community is pretty well agreed that -that- should not be a possible. It's infuriating when a JPA just casually evades out of your Dbash kick connecting, yes, but it's -broken- when said kick lands on them and they don't seem to get staggered.
I have experienced this! My brother and I are big rivals as we will spend 3 hours dueling just to prove who is better. After trying arguing for the first hour about how much BS there was when he would beat me (and vice versa) I started to notice that it matters now what part of the swing is clanging and hitting. Mid to end swing heavy attack clangs with any fast attack, also the duration of the clang changes too. I don't remember the specifics about the timings and such but it is worth noting that the timing, clangs, and where the swing is at when it clangs/strikes counts and is a make or break in reacting in a fight. Trust me I had to lose to my own brother to discover this. I wish I could have learned it any other way...............For the record I am still better!
I wonder why they think it should be intentional. Is it really that difficult to just extend a stun's duration by less than a second?
I think the tier of the weapon directly plays a roll in the stun timing, or at least I have noticed a correlation between the 2. I have no idea if this is real and I could be totally wrong but it's just what I have noticed while playing. 500+ hours here in case anyone cared.
I know exactly what you're saying. I'm going to re-iterate though. Orks cannot take advantage of that window because our animations do damage later into our animation, and as a result, we clang later, which results in smaller windows that allow for player input. This window becomes so small because Orks clang later, we can almost never get the window to properly roll before the kick comes in. I'm also convinced that the ork dbash is simply slower than the marine one, but I have no evidence on hand to prove it other than the headbutt(kick equivalent) takes far longer to complete so I'll assume they're the same for now. In super simplified numbers version(totally wrong numbers but for illustrative purposes) Lets assume a Dbash is 1.00seconds long and the kick/headbutt happens after 0.75seconds. Lets assume a Marine Fast attack takes 1 second to complete, but damage can be applied anywhere from 0.25s-1.00s. Lets assume an Ork Fast attack takes 1 second to complete, but damage can be applied anywhere from 0.50s-1.00s Lets assume it takes 0.25s to recover from a clang. Your formula is: Dbash Stun Time - Time to Clang - Time to Recover = Window to Roll Best case for both is to clang early with a dbash started at the same time. So the clang happens in 0.25s into the fast attack as that is when damage would be applied but clangs instead Then the marine recovers 0.25s later over the clang animation. A total of 0.50s after the initial attack before input can be entered. The Dbash the marine clanged off of however still has 0.25s more time before it connects its stun. So the marine has a total of 0.25s to press any input(usually a roll) and I frames out of the kick/headbutt. Marine math: 0.75 - 0.25 - 0.25 = 0.25s input window Now for the Ork we clang at best after 0.50s since that's the earliest time in our animation that does damage. Now we recover after 0.25s from the clang, totaling in 0.75s total time to recover from the clang and now can put in player input to roll. However the kick is also coming in after 0.75s. So orks get a total of 0.00s window to respond to a successful Dbash clang. Ork Math: 0.75 - 0.50 - 0.25 = 0.00s input window Obviously this is not the case in the actual game as it is possible for orks to roll out of a Dbash, it's just incredibly hard and rare and only happens in the most advantageous of circumstances for the ork. If the marines lead a dbash by even the tiniest bit, you're done. The point I'm making is: It's not enough that Ork and Marine melee speeds are even, we also need to actually do damage in the same windows of our animation, otherwise timing like this screws over Orks entirely. This is why Ork Dbash Stun rolling is rare, because even in the best case scenarios, our window for player input to roll is incredibly small, especially compared to the marine one. Best example I have happens to have both cases in one highlight clip: http://plays.tv/video/587d196bce4ca25f02/-dbashdodgecheating-double-trouble?from=user Note: Name was done before I knew and I can't figure out how to edit it EDIT: Suffer not the typos to live, Grammar Emporer be praised
Well, your first post, and the rest of this thread (by my assumption) had to do with your talk with Brent, not with Orkz in particular so...I didn't mention it, nor will I. That would be a discussion for another thread, to me at least.
Yeah, I had that impression, but I was fairly sure such a thing as an 'endless salt' gif exists, and that was the best I was able to find.
Dodging out of a stun is unreliable as Eldar. Sometimes I can as a Hawk, emphasizing sometimes, but I can't as a Banshee. The CSM assault marine I was dancing with sure did a few times. I really can't tell if it's a feature or a bug. Could be latency.
