Hey all, @BrentEllison The structure of Redeploy greatly benefits defenders. Please consider making redeploy have more limits such as you can only redeploy to the closest point of your death, transport or something movement wise limiting. It makes defending points far to easy when used to it's utmost. The point of transports is to act as our mobile deployment, but as a defender when you can hit esc and redeploy to any point, it makes those vehicles pointless, and has a greater effect on the overall battle. Attackers are the ones that are penalized by having transports destroyed. Then you have the what I will call the worst exploit of this (I know, just my view of it even if not) is you have most of your force suicide via redeploy and then just sit and wait with your hit team waiting for one of your lookouts at each point to call out how many are incoming and the troops in waiting just pounce on that point in overwhelming numbers INSTANTLY. Then once done, they again suicide to sit in waiting for the next watchout to call in where the enemy is going. Defenders can easily keep majority of their force in reserve and shift to any point that is being pushed on. MYST has debated this tactic, we've used it intermittently, and some may like it as it is but I find it cheapens the battle and gameplay as it makes all the spaces between points significantly undermined, and once more catch on to how superior this strategy is. Fighting away from points as an attacker just whittles you down so you have no force to push with. Please, feel free to comment on this strat. EDIT: So some solutions to this based on discussion below could be; 1. Defenders spawn farther away just as if the point was being contested (in progress of capping), so still having a vehicle close by is more beneficial. 2. The redeploy timer doesn't start until you click to spawn on a poinit, which also locks your choice in until you spawn. 3. They could tweak the ratio of vehicles spawn and max vehicle cap based on being an attacker or defender, as defenders are normally entrenched so they would likely have less vehicles, but attackers need more vehicles as that's how they are getting to the fight. I actually like both 1 and 3 as this would encourage moving battle, attackers have a slight benefit with more vehicle access to spawn on them, and push into place.
I just wish spawns would make sense from a lore standpoint. Eldars having webportals, marines being deployed from above (so need to be OUTDOOR and not spawning inside on the TOP of a defending ramp already ready to mow down in a team of 5 the single slugga that survived the onslaught on top of the ramp only to find five nurgle marines spawning ON him. ) Spawns for defenders should be less optimal because it would be nice to have better spawn options (like using reserve and other redeployment mechanism) that are actually part of a strategic gameplay with warlords special powers or equipable items (that make you redeploy faster or stuff like that). Access to pods, deepstrike, teleportation, webway, etc. so yeah, the BASE spawning for everyone should be less optimal than that. You could also delay the use of vehicles for the defending team, logic wise to imply the base is "stormed by surprise" and there is a slight delay to bring them to fighting readiness. so you don't have that silly point where defenders vehicles swarms attackers spawn points and attackers can't get a single vehicle to survive aka Maggon. Or something like defenders have less access to vehicles because their base is surrounded and cut off from supply whereas an enemy attacking likely has access to his air support or backline logistic to bring in more heavy firepower. (while defenders have the advantage of terrain). basically what I'm saying is you need to have an holistic approach where you consider each elements interelation and come up with an integral strategy about: 1- spawn points 2- map design / advantage of terrain / use of defensive quad guns 3- vehicles availability MY SUGGESTION [1] More vehicles for attackers (or earlier while defenders have like a 3-5 minutes without spawning them) [2] quad guns that make sense for the map at play and don't five quad guns to attackers, just give them more tanks -_-' you don't attack with static defenses. [3] base defender spawns happening outside of buildings a bit external to the action (preferably still in cover because who would be dumb enough to drop their troops in a crossfire opened terrain), to account for the fact these are fresh troop coming from either new transports/aerial support, etc. [4] still retain special abilities or circumstances that allow for deployment inside but are limited and require either special powers/items/loadout points dedicated to that. (in example, limit it to tactical classes) [5] Or allow, at game start, the warlord to dictate which squads is named "a guarisson" of a point. squad A only can spawn directly inside point A as if they were it's own garrisson, other squads that wish to deploy there are "reinforcements" and as such, come from farther afar. Than squad B is dedicated to B, squad C to C, and any other squads are always treated as reinforcements or "special units". Those that feel like lone wolfing may join those. Those that want to cooperate will know squad A to C are key because they have advatageous spawn for ONE sector of the map.
Edit: I misread your post, i basically meant though suicide or kill each other but you would be stuck redeploying to the closest point you died to, so it would do you little good to redeploy to a point as it would take you back to yours, preventing the queue'd up reserve that can instantly jump on any point. --- I meant not redeploying to points, but vehicles are fine. Puts emphasis on keeping your vehicle alive as it is key for an assault squad to keep pressure on taking a point. I actually like @Trenchwar idea that defenders spawns should spawn further away from the point, akin to when a point is contested. That way it also puts value on defenders having a transport nearby as well to properly reinforce. This way your teams domination over the map is based on their ability to keep vehicles alive and near points, which then would be equally important for attackers and defenders, vs defenders just put a pile of quys in queue to instantly spawn on any point that comes under pressure.
Pods can land on top of structures, why not. Anyway that swarming one point strat doesn't work because there are multiple points anyway. It's a cute game of numbers not a dumb one.
We've been trying for about a year to draw attention to the fact that /suicide-redeploy rewarding defenders with fast travel from contested objective to contested objective breaks the game and makes attacking nearly impossible on the free for all maps. As much as I disliked vehicle spam, I'd rather see defenders have a few more mobile spawns available as well as intermittently(once every 2 to 3 minutes or so) being able to spawn with their squad like in Battlefield games(teleport homer, squad teleport is lore appropriate), rather than cheesing suicide for fast travel to defend objectives.
@Nether @Trenchwar @Njord-Halfhand I'm with you guys on this definately. Suicide or team kill spawning as a method to rapidly relocate a squad really kills the game in terms of fun and makes it all about death teleportation. This kills the mobile infantry warfare on a map and introduces a concept alien to warhammer lore. A method must be introduced by bEhaviour to stop this AND before launch. In fact this issue is (only just) more important than the fight for the return of Repair Kits ; P I have also said as Trenchwar pointed out that all spawning should really be lore friendly and have animations such as webways drop pods etc to really give the game a greater warhammer feel. People popping into existence is horrible and makes the game look so cheap. Moreover the addition of actual meaningful match or campaign resources to aid spawning of troops or vehicles would help immeasurably in increasing the epicness of this game. Resource costing possibly warlord driven anywhere-on-map spawns such as permitted by droppods or webway gate equivalents are a great feature that I truly hope is coming. More importantly the improvement to gameplay would be considerable. Whilst I prefer a more realistic form of gameplay with a visible mobile infantry frontline Ideally I would like to see spawn happening only in the initial zones or through droppods or webway equivalents. I would remove ALL vehicle spawning altogether. Certainly objective point spawning would get removed also. This is not going to happen however as people want a more arcade experience and if they wanted that they would play Arma. In any case suicide redeploys have to be stopped and it is down to behaviour to do that. Please don't make it become the norm for anyone not least competitive guilds to mass suicide redeploy. It really will make for a lame game.
Either your squad / guild has group discipline or it doesn't. Most don't and this is no reason at all to prevent this change.
