As a melee only player, if I dbash you....I get 2 light attacks with sword / chainsaw or 1 with axe fist etc.......

If I dbash you as a ranged player with a bolter, I shoot you dead, no exceptions.

This is the quintessential flaw in melee combat. Melee players have zero chance at ranged (for obvious reasons) and just a "slightly" better chance at melee with ranged characters, provided you dont get dbashed....which as stated above....means you lose.

On top of all this, melee characters HAVE to close the gap on a ranged character fast....which means light attacking is largely encouraged. Good ranged players know this, and simply dbash and win.

My recommended fix, is to simply have the dbash from a ranged character NOT stun, just knock you back a few paces. This means they'd have to dbash you, and maybe roll back to create a gap....but this ALSO gives the melee character a chance to either continue his attack, or dodge as well.

You are taking a guaranteed lose situation for the melee guy who is SUPPOSED to be favored in melee encounters....and at least giving him a better chance to succeed.

If a range guy spots me ahead , and im not in melee range.....he has and SHOULD have a very high chance of killing me. I just want similar odds when Im in melee combat, with my MELEE character vs a ranged player

Rendering it completely useless seems like too much. Whilst I share the concern perhaps a fix is to simply reduce the stun on the Dbash when using a ranged weapon. 2 Handed ranged weapons get lower stun time, 1 handed ranged weapons also get a slight lower stun time then melee and Melee get the longest?

You shouldn't be given a free disengage just because the enemy attempted to stun you.

I know this to be real.
It was already like this before this patch. But then bolter got buffed, and some melee classes got squishier....resulting in this sad story.

My suggestion to fix this would be inspired in the rules of the TT. That you can't shoot in close combat. But nothing as drastic.

What IF:

you could only perform melee actions IF, you equipped your melee weaponl? For those that have one.
I mean, let's go with examples.

Heavy Vs melee: has no melee weapon, can do bash, and some weak "attacks"
Tatical Vs melee: IF the knife is equipped ( pressing 2) you can DBASH, and attack with your knife. If not. You'll take the hit, and can only do shoulder attacks. Most troops that have a Gun + Pistol + Knife, the standard behavior is to draw out the knife+pistol and melee, not Shoot the bolters.

So in this way, it would give you two choices as taticool. Either try to roll and keep shooting!
OR
If you see the enemy coming. Equip your knife and melee it. You still have 10 bolter shots on your pistol.

This solution would balance things on the melee vs Ranged agenda.
Because lets face it....The only ranged that "should" kill you after a DBASH, would be heavies....and they can't shoot that many shots. even with higher RPM weapons. So why should a tatical be able to, when he has a knife to defend himself with?

Maybe ya...but i dont feel a shove back would be useless. It creates room, and if timed with a roll...could allow the range player to get a few shots off.

Realistically as melee players, we could argue that heavy attacks from behind should be 100% kill. I mean a burst of 3-4 bullets can kill me, but me taking a massive wind up with a sword and chopping you from behind WHICH TAKES ABOUT 5x longer then firing off a few bolts.....shouldnt be a kill?

I feel like balancing the Dbash stun to be based on the tier of your weapon would solve all the problems.

Tier 1 weapons (Knives, Narht, etc) should be allowed at most one FA/CA worth of damage on a Dbash. This means that after a Dbash your only option is to keep swinging instead of getting your main weapon out.

Tier 2 weapons (All swords) should stay mostly the same.

Tier 3 weapons should get enough time to do a CA but not two FA's.

Tier 4 (Fists) should definitively not be allowed a CA after a Dbash.

Make it so using the quick melee puts your primary weapon away. Slow the weapon swap to main weapon animation to 1 second or more. Then maybe offer war gear to lower it back down a bit. This will help dbash being 100% broken in 1v1, but will still make you an easy kill in groups until the whole system is revamped. This might also help to give melee all the options, since right now if you dbash a ranged guy as melee, he rolls and head shot your dead while you flounder around with the long low damage animation.

Alternately, get rid of the cheese stun and make dbash do real damage, between light and heavy attack. The stun is just another band aid poor design to try and fix the system. Making bash do damage speeds up melee, similar to how ranged combat has been sped up.

It's all about luck but %
Most range classes expect melee class going to fast attack when they get close to you. Thats why they are ready to dbash when melee get chance to attack.
It is like playing rock paper scissor'This guy usually uses rock so i'll use paper to beat his ass"

But some smart melee classes predict their dbash so instead of spamming fast attack they use strong attack to counter dbash and give brief stun 'Surprise!'

And some range classes think Possibilty of their dbash getting countered by strong attack. So they try to just fast attack to clang.

Then Melee classes predict getting countered by dbash or fast attack

And then Range classes predict of getting countered by Stronk attack

And then again Melee classes predicts about getting coutnered by that possiblty.

And then again again Ranger predicts possibilites of getting countered by possibility of possiblty

And then agin again again agina..


Dbash > Fastattack = Dbash win. deals damage and stun enemy.
Strong Attack> Dbash = Strong attack win. deal damage and stun the enemy.
Fast attack > Strong attack = Fast attack win. deal damage no stun.
Fast attack = Fast attack = Clang

If you really want dbash stun remove then you gotta ask to remove strong attack stun against dbash.

This is what is wrong. If you play swords, you get a heavy attack after a successful Dbash.
Which usually concludes the fight.
Alternatively, don't get dbashed. If you light attack spam of course you are prone to getting stunned and shot to death.

Lets say what could happen if your proposal get patched in game

Tier 1 After dbash keep on using your melee weapon.
-This sounds fair enough but range classes knives weapon had limited mods and weapons to equip(giving huge disadvantage against melee classes with tier 2 to 4 weapon). There should be more mods options for knives and narthecium such as extra durability, increase impact, varieties of knives.

Tier 2 weapons should stay mostly the same
- classic

Tier 3 weapons should get enough time to do a CA but not two FA's
- Tier 3 weapons already have slower CA than tier 2 and 1, not sure what is two FA btw

Tier 4 (Fists) should definitively not allowed a CA after a Dbash.
- Dbash give brief stun for 1 to 2 second and first CA take more than 2 seconds. Right now it is easy to evade unless you are out of stamina.

A lot of the community is in agreement that this needs to be reviewed. Not sure what the right solution is, but in the meantime smash that spacebar! Also, no one says you have to melee after a successful stun......shoot them in the face with your pistol.