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PVE and PVP are not the same

Discussion in 'PVE Discussion' started by Kalenath, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. Kalenath Kalenath Subordinate

    Ok, we all know that in PVP, mobility is life. That if you are not moving, some Heavy or Jump Assault will take advantage. Usually when you least expect it. We know that in PVP, even when teams try to work together, it is every man/xeno for himself. We also know that lag kills players as much or more than stupid decisions do.

    In PVE, we are not facing players who will do the utterly unexpected, usually at the worst possible time. We are facing hordes of AI Tyranids. None of the regular Tyranids are a match for even the newest player one on one. Warriors are but they are rare. So, the gaunts don't come one on one. They attack five or six on one. Even then, not too hard to beat if you have a clue how to play and you don't lag at bad times. Horde is just a larger group of enemies at a time on familiar maps, some easier, some harder.

    Thing is, every time I have played Horde for the last few days, I see the same thing. The faction doesn't matter, it is always the same. The Heavies set up, get a clear firing line and someone jumps in front of them. Assault, Tactical, Support, it doesn't matter. They HAVE to stand in front of the Heavies. Which is DUMB!

    The whole POINT of a heavy weapon is to provide heavy supporting fire for the team. In Horde, the point is to cut the approaching swarm down to size BEFORE it gets close. If they do get close in numbers, even on wave 1 the team can get overwhelmed. Which is seriously **** embarrassing. (3 times today! Which is why I am writing this.)

    When you block the heavy weapon, he cannot stop the Horde from getting close. I know that many melee players think that they can take on a swarm all by themselves, but that doesn't happen. No matter how good they are, while they are focusing on one target, three more hit them and that is not survivable even if the gaunts are not adrenals or venoms. First couple of waves in Horde are fairly easy to solo with any class, but they get much harder fast. Regular PVE runs are a bit more challenging since some of them have infinite spawns and many people don;t care to play in a way that will allow them to win.

    If you HAVE to play melee in PVE Horde, please know your role. You are there to hold the enemy in place away from the ranged combatants. Period. I don't care how many kills you get, if we lose, then we LOSE and you get no XP for gaunt kills. Then if you scream about friendly fire when you were dancing all over the place and no one could see you until you were in the midst of a swarm we are gunning down? We will laugh at you.

    Speaking as a Heavy, very few things irritate me more than having a clear line of sight and then a teammate moves into it. Either edging into it, dancing into it or whatever, they make it so I CANNOT do my job. If you are KNOCKED into my line of fire by an enemy and then move, that is one thing. But if you just DECIDE that YOU need to have those kills and I don't DESERVE them, then I might just shoot YOU to get you out of my way.

    I don't want to shoot friendlies. (Most of the time. A couple of the ones this morning, I was sorely tempted) I want to win the mission, get XP and level my characters. Not everyone has the same level of situational awareness. Not everyone will look around when the game is going fast and gaunts are swarming towards you. But if the heavy isn't firing before the gaunts get close, there is a problem.

    Don't be the problem, please.
  2. Lootmasta Kaptin_Pokkets Arkhona Vanguard

    As a Loota I just wanna say THANK YOU. That crap gets annoying real quick, and I've had to TK more than one idiot who just wanted to farm kills for the match.
  3. Kalenath Kalenath Subordinate

    I can sort of see Orks dancing around as they are shooting stuff. But even an Ork HAS to know that the end of the Deffgun with the holes is NOT a good thing to stand in front of when enemies are coming.

    And only a COMPLETE moron stands in front of a Havoc with an autocannon. (Or one of the fools I had this morning. And yes, I did give him two shots from the Disgrace. He moved. What was LEFT of him)
  4. Havoc ComradeHavoc Well-Known Member

    Admittedly though.... the camera isn't very intuitive in EC. You're mostly hugging the leftmost surface with a VERY wide area that can block your LOS that even extends BEHIND you.
    Houngar likes this.
  5. Kalenath Kalenath Subordinate

    Yes, that can be annoying. But the morons who have to dance in front of your muzzle can also be.

    I mean, if the Heavy sets up, braces and then has to move and then move AGAIN because he keeps getting the red circle with the diagonal line through it every time he fires because every time HE moves, the other guy has to as well?

    I can see the camera being off. I have been blocked by allies' models more than once and had to blind fire and pray for a hit. But that is different from having a solid line of fire and some jackass moving to take that line of fire. Because he doesn't know or doesn't give a shit that he is about to get the team wiped.

    Had two games last night where I fired a grand total of 2 loads of ammo out of a Heavy per game. Two different factions. Every time I took aim, some numbnuts decided to jump in front of me. Only time I could fire was when the rest of the team was down. Then they had the balls to complain that I wasn't shooting. I asked them if they wanted me to shoot them and their reply was 'shoot AROUND us, moron!' My reply? 'NICE dancing! Too bad you are not Eldar! I think that was one of their mating ones!'

    That happened twice last night and I called it a night. It is getting to the point where I am going to fire anyway. At least it will make me feel better to die with no ammo left.
  6. DoomJester DoomJester Arkhona Vanguard

    I've sadly had folks critique about my lack of action with shield, since I'll sit there and just tank...imagine my surprise. I look at it, much as has been stated, but I'm there to serve as a conduit/OS overwhelmed insurance. I take the hits, I don't consume ammo, I try to stay crouched and off to the side, and if everyone's out of ammo, berserk charge to clear the way. I don't know if it was changed with the last patch, but you could melee if up against a edge, angled towards that edge where your allies can't shoot, and scoot the enemy into their fire. It's easy, simple, and cause minimal interruption to your barrier.
    Whitefox550 likes this.
  7. Kalenath Kalenath Subordinate


    Do you have ANY idea how many shield bros and shield sluggas seem to think that having that big hunk of metal hanging off their arm makes them invincible when swarmed by 20+ Nids?

    As a dedicated Heavy player, you have my eternal admiration for one who knows how to play to your strengths and not just get the team killed!

    So many melee players just charge in, trusting in their certainty of victory instead of thinking about how insane they are acting. I have seen a few who knew how to play to strengths, in all factions, but they are so rare as to be VERY memorable.

    Saw a very good Traitor Assault this morning while playing Chaos. First time playing that faction actually and I was not expecting much, but he surprised me. He NEVER crossed my line of fire. Charged in, got the enemy's attention and drew them into my line then retreated. We got to 9.5 waves before a grenade I threw bounced badly and took out half our team. I swear they are catching the things now and throwing them back! (Yes, that was my bad and I admit it, but we maxxed the XP and it was a GOOD run)
    Whitefox550 and DoomJester like this.
  8. BaronXIII Arkhona Vanguard

    Some other things for Heavies to know as a Tac here...

    1.) For the love of god Crouch, if you're standing you're doing it wrong

    2.) Bring an ammo pack no matter what you have to do, you're firing through ammo like a hose which is expected but we only have so much in the ammo cannisters. If I, as a Tac run out in front of your fire, it's alot less likely that I want kills and alot more likely I'm trying to zig zag through the horde to an ammo crate to get MY two ammo packs so I can dispense them to YOU.

    3.) If there are three of you, try to align yourselves in a way that leaves a gap people can pass through. At the end of the waves it's my job to run out and pick up the stragglers and/or I'm running out to get our team ammo. Hell I may just be running out to get the enemy to follow me while you all reload then I'll drag them all back into your firing line. It's an exercise in frustration when I'm sitting there rolling against two people or even meleeing them to give them the hint to move, especially in battle.

    4.) When the Warrior comes, realize people are going to HAVE to move, we ain't killing him before he gets to us. Especially not with his friendly horde behind him. Keep firing, but realize the reason one of us is running out is to stall the Warrior. Doubly so if it's a shieldbro.

    5.) DO NOT KILL THE LAST ENEMY IN THE LEVEL. OMG. I've had this happen so many times it disgusts me. When the battle is practically over (like 5 enemies but they aren't a threat), or a single enemy is left and 2-3 minutes on the clock. Let the Tac or the melee guys go get it. DO NOT SHOOT IT. We can use that time to ammo up, and get YOU ammo'ed up. In addition, you're wasting ammo. If there's 5 of them, I can take them on with my freaking knife half the time. Don't run out the clock when it isn't your job.

    6.) Try to work something out with your team so they know you are TRULY out of ammo. Like, you make the ammo call twice or three times in a row. This way I'm not giving an ammo pack to someone who still has 50-100 shots left just because I see the automatic icon over their head.

    7.) If you throw a grenade, I hate you, doubly so if that grenade so much as grazes the team, but this is more for everyone not just heavies.
    DarkVoidBoy and Kalenath like this.
  9. Kalenath Kalenath Subordinate

    1) TOTALLY AGREE. I also wish people would stop sidling closer and blocking my firing line in their need to see or steal my kills or whatever.

    2) Full auto fire is not very useful no matter the class. With a Heavy, firing in bursts limits the heat build up, allows for rapid retargeting and uses less ammo. If you RUN in from of me and are obviously going for ammo, no problem, I will let you by. If you STAND or DANCE in front of me? I will shoot you. I rarely run out of ammo in the first two waves of Horde, since I use burst fire. 5 heavy bolts/shurikens/loota bullets put any gaunt down, especially with a headshot at the end and it is not hard to learn how to do it. I only go full auto if we are being overrun and have no choice.

    3) Good point. It can be hard to do on occasion, but if you can pull it off, the wall of fire is SOLID.

    4) Few actually try and fight the warrior since the XP caps before that and that makes 9/10 of the groups unable or unwilling to even try.

    5) OMG, who the HELL cannot figure that out? Hmmm? (about 3/4 of the PVE teams that is who. DEY GOTTA HAVE DOS KILLS! NOW!)

    6) Agreed.

    7) 'Once the pin is pulled, Mr Grenade is no longer your friend!' Grenades are NOT your friends in PVE, especially when the gaunts seem to be able to throw them back sometimes. If you do not know when to use them (and more importantly, when NOT to) DON'T.

    one thing I will add. The ammo boxes are limited now. So when you are 5 rounds short of a full load and top it off, you use up 1/9 of the box. If you use the closest one to wherever your team has holed up, you will NOT win many friends.
    BaronXIII likes this.
  10. Ser DJ Hodor TheBurgerMeister Well-Known Member

    Dear dev team:

    Go play Space Marine: Exterminatus mode and come back afterwards.

    You should have a much better understanding of how PvE needs to function after a mere 30 mins of gameplay.
    Levels in PvE for Eternal Crusade need to be waaaaaaaaaay more open. We need to be able to move around more and stop getting stuck on one another. Also it takes the purpose out of JPA classes as they have no use currently.

    In Exterminatus, you could viably play as a JPA class and do really well. But that's because all the levels had room for the JPA class to move around. Most of the maps are hallways and the JPA has limited use with his jump pack.

    PvE is just god damn awful in this game. I don't even know why they ever bothered. Should have just stuck with small attainable goals to start rather than these broad half-assed things that nobody even plays. Honestly, so few people play PvE and its not even fun or rewarding.

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