So this was briefly touched on by another member @Njord-Halfhand. http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/thr...-an-ohk-weapon-the-second-you-spawn-in.61054/ This is an important topic I feel as though has not received enough attention since so many people are talking about balance, they aren't seeing what's about to happen. Where we left off was anger at the ability to OHK a Vet Class who has limited spawns. That Vets felt a bit weak both offensively and defensively, and their life counter a bit unjustified- though I myself do actually see a noticable difference fighting elites as a basic class. Many feel as though OHKs should not occur, that a single hit weapon with outright lethal damage to a Vet should essentially reduce their hp to 1 instead of to -200 ragdoll. Maybe this could be conferred as a free item only Vets can use. Eternal Warrior so to speak. Some even argue that OHKs be changed to OHDs for Vets. They simply get knocked down and can be revived... Or executed depending on which way the wind blows. But that leaves discussion open for Elites, Terminators, and Heros. Which I felt has been pretty sparse considering we're approaching their implementation pretty quickly. On one hand, these units have incredible game alterating stats in basically every format. DoW, TT, Deathwing, Spacehulk, the lore, all chaulk full of examples where these units basically mulching armies in their own right, the terminator equivalents wading through hails of gunfire without even slowing down. Hero's that can outright slay everything and everyone they lay sight on. Sounds like a great time - if you're not the mulch. And as many are still concerned over the basic class balance. The balance between ranged and melee, where do these new units stand? What of horizontal progression? Will basic units become obsolete? How can people expect to take them on without spamming extreme tactics like 5+ PCs against Termies or is that the intention? Will they hold a way to counter these monsters or will we have to rely on both sides summoning Elites? Is there some sort of way to prevent an entire team from deploying as Heros and/terminators on a regular basis? A way to make them feel valuable? A way to prevent these units from dying as easily as a trooper without making them ridiculously op? I just have a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to all this new stuff arriving soon. I'd love to hear about it in the twitch today if at all possible @Oveur @KatieFleming , and @BrentEllison
If Exarch weapons are gonna be restricted, they better be OP. So brace for the mon'keigh tears with our Exarchs... Honestly, the vet system needs a rework. Then we can look at elites. I dislike limited lives. I think they should be like Battlefront 2 special classes. With Elites being like heroes in BF2. Basically, as you get points, you will get a veteran unlock. And you can use them endlessly for the rest of the match. This way more vets become prevalent near the end of the match. Elites could be a 1-life thing that comes in after 'X' amount of points OR if you haven't gotten a chance for say, 6 minutes. This way even noobs get the chance to play. But they will be limited as only 2-3 can be on field at one time. Veterans IMO shouldn't be much better than basics. But they should have better weapons. IMO the Stormbolter for example should be veteran only. Would make vets more impactful than basics, but not overpowering.
I'm actually worried about TEQs being underpowered. In EC, being slow is usually a death sentence and as Terminators are meant to be slow I worry they'll be either really easy to kill or they will have to make them so tanky it might border on absurd. Also, without knowing how they will be spawned it's difficult to think about their balance. If they are severely limited then it's fine they are devastating but if they can be spammed then they can't be overly tough as, like you said, basic classes will be obsolete. If you're playing as a Terminator you want to feel like a walking tank shrugging off hits and slaughtering all who come across your path but that will be very difficult to balance, especially with the storm bolter we have now. Personally I would like to see Terminators treated as a situational tool with some specifically designed maps where they excel but they should not be a viable choice in all situations.
Slow clumbering tanks would actually pretty easy to exploit out in the open although in capture points... please make them unable to decap
Assuming veterans & elites can get immunity to instant death attacks, wouldn't this sort of mean that any organized groups would get all the veteran slots shortly after a match has started and will likely keep them till the end of it?
Honestly Wraithguard will be a b#tch to balance. They are slow, but they are ranged. They aren't meant to get close. They are actually more a medium to long range 1-hit killer. Nah, my version of VETS would still die to OHKs. Elites would be hard, you cant let everyone play them. A team of 15 Terminators would dominate everything.
I really really dislike the "after x kills/points unlock super special ability/class z to get even more kills/points" mechanics. That way you only reward steamrolling teams while the steamrolled team has no chance to come back. Our current veteran system is not perfect but it allows you to deploy a veteran at any given time (if you still have lives left). So in theory veterans/elites etc should be used as an strategic asset. If you are behind and you absolutely have to take that one point there you spawn as an elite that maybe gives you enough of an boost to tip the scales.
Based on my previous discussion, a generalized farming of xp shouldn't be the way to go. So how's this: First Vet Class is Free - you choose in the begining of the game 2 different Vets. One you spawn for free, and the other is unlocked to spawn as many times as you want after a threshold playing whatever class that Veteran is reached. To spawn again: Vet Classes Earned By Role. Elites, Terminators, and Hero's are all unlocked via successively higher thresholds in the role you've assigned for them. There has to be some sort of predictable evolution for this to work. Like if you see @ShoulderMount , @DJPenguin , or @Lazermuff start snowballing away with points (the scoreboard needs to be transparent about who is gaining points in what areas (see below), you'll be able to tell right away where that player intends on "evolving into" as the game progresses. You must earn 6k points (just a number... CSMs will see the pattern) served in that role for a vet unlock. Elites at 7k, Termies at 8, and your hero at 9k. If an Assault Vet is in the slot, you must reach 5k in points with the following: Kills, executions, assists, revives, point guard. - Can even add that there has to be a minimum of 3 executions here. Tacticals Kills, executions, assists, revives, point flip, point interruptions, point guard, ammo sharing. - Must have 1 interrupt/point capture and 1 Execution. Medical Same as Tact + heals. Must have 5 revives. Dev / Heavy Armor Xp (within and/or against a tank), suppression, kills, assists, group downs and executions. After you reach 6k in points you can play with that Vet all you want - but if you die you're giving the other team the means to "catch up" quicker.
