I know I'm going to be unpopular for suggesting this but someone did the math and came up with a nice little chart that shows toughness and how much penetration you would need to ignore it and also how much damage reduction you have vs what penetration... It's in a video I'll link below and it's not my video just a heads up. According to the chart since most classes start at 100 toughness *some eldar 80* that means that the only weapons they get some protection from is the physical based weapons such as chain sword and bolter *there's more that's just a example. They all have a default penetration of 80 then you have the auto cannon and ace dakka that are 130 and 120 respectively and then we have the power weapons which are 140 *not including the klaw/fist as they are off the list due to being mainly AV weapons*. As you can see the penetration of auto cannon and power/plasma weapons are off the charts meaning they will deal full damage to most targets even if they decide to take the first wargear armor option while the chain sword and stuff get a nice little chunk of reduced damage taken so they are not as bad. My suggestion is to lower penetrations to new levels to give the defensive wargear a bit more of a value as right now it's not even worth using since most players are spamming weapons that 100% ignore your toughness. What I'm going to suggest will be in a list based on penetration. 80 penetration weapons are fine they get their damage reduced even on a basic unit as they don't hit hard enough to ignore even the default armor. 120-130 penetration acedakka/auto cannons need to come down as they are just to strong in their current state I would say reduce the penetration values to around 90 meaning a naked unit gets a "tiny" bit of protection vs naked and a nice reduction when using T1 and T2 armor the raw damage would make it powerful still but much more bearable. Most auto cannons use high energy rounds so the penetration would be higher than a standard bolter so that's why it would only be 10 above it. 140 penetration power weapons needs to come down as well. Power weapons are supposed to be good vs tough targets but not 100% ignore their toughness all together. The base toughness in game is 80 for a few eldar units and 100 for the rest meaning even with wargear you sit at maybe 125-130 toughness which means power weapons ignore ALL wargear options outside of being able to stack high toughness on vets. I would recommend changing the penetration to 100 so it ignores the default toughness and armor of players but if you use t1+ you have some defense to it. This also increases the value of the bonus penetration mod and puts it more on par with the damage mod. The new penetration system would look like this before mods analog weapons would be 80 pen auto cannon/ace dakka 90 pen plasma/power weapon 100 pen *power fist stays as is since it's not that effective vs infantry in most cases* *not my video linking so people know what I'm talking about* View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jI69R9Pn4k So people know what I mean by default/t1/t2 armors. Default armor = no armor T1 armor = first wargear armor T2 armor = second wargear armor Anyway thoughts... I'm sure this will be a unpopular topic as people love their power weapon spam but it needs to be discussed.
Toughness is pretty much a worthless stat when everyone and their mom is using Power Sword+ weapons by and large with a melee heavy meta atm. Toughness is really only good against ranged weapons since most rock 80 Pen instead of 140 like all Power weapons. Ranged is not in favor currently though so...not really needed. Even classes like Scorpion who are forced to use Chainswords have a mechanic that makes the damage so overwhelmingly high that they in a sense still bypass toughness. I already made a poll a few days back about lowering Pen on Power weapons, it got mixed results. Alternatively we could increase point costs on Power Weapons so people are running more barebones with them save for Vets.
I left out claw/fist since the vehicle armor/toughness is for another thing. Honestly I would say they need to just overhaul the current state of vehicles as they are for the most part useless as 3 of the 4 races just remove them from the equation since their AV is to strong. Anyway it's a different topic all together.
Not really since axes do a fair amount of AV damage.Lowering their penetration might prove problematic with that. Forget about axes i was looking at my Ironbane...and not the standard axe.
Honestly the only melee that should do noticeable damage to vehicles is power klaw/fist. If they want axe to deal damage to vehicles they can tweak it or give it a attachment to up the vehicle damage. They need to nerf penetration though because that's the entire reason for the current plasma/autocannon/power weapon meta.
Pffffft hahahahaah no. Axes have 140 Pen, Fists/Klaws have 360 now. An Axe heavy doesn't even hit as hard as a Fist/Klaw light attack on players(back hit not withstanding), let alone the disparity that would be there between them hitting a vehicle. Hacking a vehicle with an Axe is a waste of time even now. Slap yourself and go redeploy as a Melta quick instead.
That is bullshit...melee weapons allready have a hard time dealing damage to vehicle(moving ones at least) even claws/fist .Nerfing every other melee weapon except those will just allow people to park vehicles without having to care about them.And simply joining the zerg.Which might feel ok for someone playing orks,but i dont think its beneficial for the game. Regarding Plasma the aoe is bugged and doesnt do less damage away from the center ,when this is fixed the weapon will be far more managable.AC is fine imo as it is(Dots might need a nerf though AG).
I dunno it's Galen, he has his moments. Seriously though, I haven't seen anyone hacking at Rhinos with axes outside of noobs. It's not viable, stop doing it. Get a melta, get meltabombs, get a fist, get a lascannon, get plasma, get AC...anything other than seriously spending 3 minutes hacking a Rhino with a Power Sword/Axe.
