Seriously guys stop demanding eldar wide nerfs, more and more guns, melee buffs, grenade buffs, gun buffs, vehicle buffs, waaaggghhh buffs, waaaggghhh nerfs, etc etc

We as a community need to focus on what they biggest problems are instead of going after everything u der the orky sun!

I agree melee isn't where it needs to be and I think the devs know that. I don't think that is a problem with other factions and more of a grwoing pains for a new faction kinda deal. Our guns are actually pretty damn good (HB type weapons are kinda overshadowing everything atm and I think the devs are probably looking into that already)

The current lootbox makes things kinda rough but if we buff everything and THEN unlock everything later we may end up over powered. I don't wanna be the overpowered faction tbh. I don't doubt the loot system may see revision in the future.

Atm we need to learn what works (which is quite a bit actually) and what doesn't work. This is happeneing in a lot of other games to where people demand buff this and nerf that without thinking about consequences or how others will be affected. Good examples in games I'm playing right now are Evolve and Dead by daylight. Seriously go look at their forums 3/4 of their communities think they shoyld be able to stomp the other guy and that the other guy is too strong and needs a nerf.

We need to really think about this stuff and not just spam buff nerf buff nerf buff nerf buff nerf. I have faith the devs will work on this stuff. Look at the eldar before they weren't functional but now they are. I dont think they are op, I actually enjoy fighting against them tbh. I think our faction just isnt fully functional yet and things are yet to come (I highly doubt the klaw isnt getting a fast attack, I really hope we get snip snip fast attacks they may still be working in the animation)

We need a thread with a poll that reflects our communities biggest concerns instead of mass "ermagurd" threads. I'd do it but I'm doing all this from a phone and it is a huge pain in the ass to try and type all this out.

AYE DEM WHININ' BOYZ ARE NUFFIN BUT GROTZ, EVERY BOYZ CAN KILL PANZEEZ AND UMMIES WITH ENUFF DAKKA SO QUIT YER WHINING AND GO TO WAAAAAAGH


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJkFsf3Says

To be fair the only things that makes me utterly in a bad mood is the shit balance between attackers and defenders on harkus, zedek and maggon, with a single facing of the enemy and a godamn timer.

The game itself is broken as fuck because the maps themselves aren't fun to play as an attacker for 3 of the 8 that we got.

Now if you add to that everything else. I worked my ass to try out the powerklaw because I never got to test it (nor the cannon deffgun) before the requisition was in and before we had to unlock stuff. Only to find it has no godamn fast attack and it's one of the worst melee weapon. In fact my deffguns are better melee options because at least they can clang a bit vs low tier weapons.

So even though I love a propah scrap, those are few and far in between...

My propah scraps have been on olipsis, torias and pegasus, sometimes decent on medusa and blackbolt. Medusa does have opportunies for smart play which I enjoy.

harkus zedek and maggon are...oh god just don't start me.

FIX DIS ZOGGIN' LAG AN' MEBBE I WILL STOP RAGIN'!

ITZ DA WURST BOYZ! AN' I WONT BE SAYIN' NO PROPPA FOIT UNTIL IT GETZ FIXED UP!

So glad other people understand. When I play orks its more or less like this. The shoota is a pretty great weapon.

To make a more organised answer:

Balance Problems for everyone

[1] Maps : three maps are next to impossible to win as attacker NO MATTER WHICH FACTION

a) Harkus: Because there is no reliable way to sneak in, make use of jump troops or protect your ordnance to destroy the door. Only lascannon equivalents can be used properly to kill defenders on the rampart. You need to do that at max range while remaining hidden in some ruin, right at spawn. go any further than that and your dead. Tickets for defenders are too high. So much that sallying fort for melee classes is a good strategy to kill our long range units. Tickets are so high they are meaningless.
b) Zedek: A is easy to get for an organised team, park your rhino south of A, they have good cover if you defend them against enemies sallying forth. However, from A to B, your transports will be destroyed, any attack vector puts you under enemy fire. You can't walk there because it's too open you'll be sniped. You can't snipe back because you'd need lascannons for that, heavy bolter are too accurate against our other heavies, but LOS will be blocked if you try to shoot from A with a zzap. because the course of attack is so predictable with only left and right bridge to lead in a single defendable front for the enemy, no surrounding or sneak attack is possible. Our trucks won't make it that close either.
c) Maggon: Again, it is possible to win A with dedicated heavies giving fire support and suppression and killing other heavies with our deffguns, once you get A however, you won't make it to B. predators, and heavy bolters will be waiting for you and the enemy can cap A back faster than you can cap B. It takes twice much time to cap B than A also.

special mention TIMERS. WHY. DO. WE. HAVE. THIS? You see, I have the maggon station attack achievement, got it for harkus and zedek too. When I won on attack on those maps? well, my friend, BEFORE TIMERS WHERE IN. Grinding and being forced to play a losing match isn't fun? well it ain't lost until it is!!! Sometimes the first few assaults aren't succesful, but at somepoint, all you need is a tiny mistake from the defending team, a gap, getting all your transports back ready to swarm, attrition sometimes work. It used to. Especially on a game where YOU HAVE TICKETS like harkus, grinding is part of the fun, the defenders have to think with their brainz when the attacker have more time. They are less reckless because with more time for an attack, defenders lives matter MORE.

Orkish specific problems

[2] inferior melee (that's right).
We are a melee oriented faction that attacks slower and with a smaller reach. Also, our powerklaw cannot make a fast attack, it does have one that is faster than our power, however it gets cancelled by any other faction's weapon fast attack. Namely, a powerfist fast attack will beat a power klaw fast attack and damage the ork. No clanging can happen. you will lose any melee to a fast attacker spammer unless you d-bash. Eldars move faster, have more reach and have better fast attacks. thus eldar are a better melee faction. They may not get higher tier weapon, but they don't need, because clanging doesn,t happen with us on our highest tier weapon, and banshee has its own mechanism. Now our klaw should be good but they are worst then it's marine equivalent, and other eldar melee classes outperform us because of special mechanics that we lack.

[3] Useless waaagh mechanics that forces us to be under performing the rest of the time.
The way the WAAAGH works, it only triggers if you are already winning. Not if you are losing. So you become more powerful if you win only. That's because it triggers on the last POSSIBLE 5 minutes. meaning if you haven't capped all 3 points at least once each, you haven't unlocked the max time of the map, thus can't get the buff. So you will never get a WAAAGH as an attacker on a tug of war or fortress map which are the toughest situations really, but will easily get it on defense or on domination type match.

[4] very weak vehicle armor with poor manoeuverability and the same cooldown as other faction and same total number of vehicles allowed.
This means we will always be the first faction to lose all its vehicles which are key to winning a map on attack. We likely will have the smallest win ratio of all faction on attack of harkus, zedek and maggon. Orkz being known for loving foights, I thought orks couldve been a faction that has it a bit easier on attack or have some kind of buff on attack but are less enclined to go "defensive".

[5] Lack of meaningful ork flavor
That one is a bit personnal, but our flavor is having short ranged piss poor accuracy dakka that theoretically has a lot of dps but in practice is very hard to use vs say, an eldar hitbox. However the teleportation/lag server problems are a big parameter that can falsify our data.

When I say lack of meaningful flavor, how are we the best at melee? do we do more damage? attack faster? have an area of effect melee spread (a cleaving motion of the axe being able to fight off 2-3 enemies). Ork on tabletop do have poor accuracy, they, however, have twice the number of attack on melee and a charge mechanic.

Sure we can,t outrun eldar on a kiting contest, but why don,t we have a mechanic to account for greater savagery in melee, faster attacks or being able to fight off more than one enemy with a cleaving motion so we can at least punish the enemy that likes to make a clusterfuck of melee on a ork and why can't we CHARGE an enemy better ?

We could also have spammable truck because an ork truck is way easier to manufacture than marines or eldar vehicles. It,s just a godamn ramshackle truck.

NOW all this is an opinion. I used fact when talking about current maps dynamics and our klaw and melee performance. however all my suggestions are to be taken with a grain of salt, I have no specific number in mind when it comes to balancing, but seriously, I,d be curious to know of other faction what they believe ork can do better than their own favorite faction. What can we do better?

Also do take note, I'm not asking for other factions nerf. The worst offender in terms of being able to win is map balance to me, not balance between faction. I've won good games vs chaos and eldar on other maps. The orkz needs a slight subtle buff, but we ALL need to have a better gameplay experience than harkus, maggon or zedek. The maps themselves are beautiful, but the timer is annoying. I used to win a lot more matches before timers where in.

Also, sorry for the pissed off tone. However seeing how timers and the maps as they are will make it to launch, I still think that's unacceptable and require the most serious attention. Those are issues that were in since the early days of eldars and orks... and still no words on the intention to fix it. We even got the stats of the win rates. Everyone went batshit crazy with OMG chaos-eldar OP. We should go batshit crazy about map balance, it's worse than faction balance.

As an ork, tell to my face you win on attack at harkus, zedek and maggon vs loyalists more often than you win vs chaos or eldar on any other maps. See? It's not chaos and eldar OP. It's fortress and tug of war game modes that create a really bad balance with timers.

Why do orks for balance? We will make a small appearance after death! So we can delight the enemy 3 times more than before! It's so fun!