So melee is kind of mess at the moment. Fast attack spam is the way to play it seems, and currently that's bad news bears for the Orks. If we're supposed to be the faction that excels in up close and melee combat, having Orks charge in only to get spam locked to hell and back spells doom for our boys. So either melee needs an overhaul that actually allows Orks to excel at what they're supposed to excel at, or the Orks should have a means to work around the system. Otherwise the Orks become a joke faction with little to no effectiveness.

Because having the boyz engage in a range that would only get them stomped everytime by spam would be abysmal for us, and utterly boring for anyone fighting us as it will quickly devolve into a one sided stomping with an inevitable outcome.

So, how do

First off @Savij mentioned a charge mechanic that grows into a bullrush. Orks should get a charge that when at full running speed would barrel people over or the very least knock them off balance. Because only an idiot would just stand in the way of a giant muscle bound Ork barreling right toward them.
So now we have a means of closing distance, as well as a means of punishing anybody who just starts swinging at the sight of an Ork charging at them with the hopes of getting them stunned locked into light spam.

Second, Ork heavy attacks should have super armor on them. And by super armor, I mean they can't be interrupted or knocked out of their heavy attack animation. Because very little would be able to stop an Ork when they start swinging. So if someone try's to spam light attack on an Ork, go for a heavy attack and cut them in half. Perhaps give Orks higher damaging heavy strikes or a heavy strike combo with stumble potential. This means Orks can still be stumbled by light attacks, but have a counter to give them the ability to fight back. Which means an Orks main priority shouldn't be dodging away from attacks but attacking through them.

Third, overall, Ork melee strikes should be stronger then the other factions. Slower, wider, whatever it needs to be to feel proper Orkish, but it should definitely be stronger then the other factions. Because raw strength is our deal, and it helps make up for our poorer range capabilities as well as gives us the incentive to rush into melee, as that's where we'd shine.

Also on a side note the WAAAGH! Effect should really help give Orks a boost to excel at melee, either giving damage resistances or attack damage based on the number of boyz around you at the moment. We know the WAAAGH! Is a thing, and we don't know for sure what it'll do. But it should still be something that buffs and strengthens the Orks overall, so why not have some of the buffs be melee orientated while their at it.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth the whole "useless" thing.
I get what your saying i realy do, it's just hard for me to articulate my meaning.

*As an example.

Space marines can shoot and melee, but chaos can only shoot or melee, the engaments with that set up would heavily favour space marines pretty much all the time simply by being more flexible. Although this example sounds rather more drastic than orks not staggering from fast attacks, it is essentialy the same problem that we are discussing.*

If fast attacks damage but don't stagger orks, what incentive do orks have to use d-bash/heavy attack. If ork fast attacks damage and stagger the enemy he is at a clear advantage and it negates the rock paper scissors system.

Likewise if orks can't dodge then they are at a disadvantage.

To hopfully make my point of view a little clearer, i have no problem at all with ork melee being stronger statwise (speed, damage, durability, swing arc etc) so long as they use the same ruleset as everyone else.(stagger, roll, clang etc)

I do agree that dedicated melee should be superior in melee, but i don't like the idea of that superiority being faction specific, every faction should have acesss to wargear, armor and weapons to make a good melee class, perhaps those options should be cheaper for orks but that is another discussion.

Except I want Orks to have mechanics that don't just make them reskins of Space Marines. Because the last thing I'd want is to have my faction designated as a bunch of reskins of the marines, otherwise what's the point of even making the Orks if they don't feel Orkish.

While i do agree with the sentiment, how else are the dev's expected to maintain a fair balance for all factions if one faction can just ignore certain mechanics, it would be like adding necrons and allowing them to shoot through walls, anyone playing necron would have a huge advantage over everyone else simply by playing necron.

To maintain a good balance and faction flavour is no easy task, i agree orks should absolutly be orky but not at the expense of other factions enjoyment.

This is why we were discussing the idea of ork run n' gun earlier in the thread, it gives orks a nice flavour and unique mechanic but doesnt impact balance in a negative way. Stat balance although boring is realisticly the best approach.

I should hope that with all the unique animations, weapons, warcry's, armor pieces, vehicles and a more melee focused playstyle that orks shouldn't simply feel like a reskin anyway.

Well I wanted the Orks to have unique mechanics while engaging in melee. So they not only look different, but they feel different as well. Balancing issues aside, Orks should have a bit poorer range capabilities when it comes to accuracy, but make up for it with having an advantage while playing to their strengths, which is both Orkish, and feels different from the other factions while still maintaining a balance of strengths and weaknesses for the faction so they're not brokenly overpowered, while still being viable to play as.

That right there is basicly what i've been trying to say all along, though i admit we view the 'problem' and 'solution' differently it all comes down to making it fun and unique without throwing balance under the bus. Orks should be better in melee than anyone else but they should not break melee balance by ignoring stagger or other such mechanics.

For now i guess we just have to agree to disagree on how to solve this 'problem' and we can wait and see what the dev's come up with, they are in all likelihood far smarter than both of us combined, here's hoping they can achieve somthing that will make both of us and every other player happy.

ork is faster than space marines

D bash could be more offense oriented for ork. Possibly even a push back or a slowing effect to negate rolling around. And heavy attack could have an aoe slam or a bigger swing ark with a lunge so it gives you a bigger cone to do damage in. That means we arent rock paper scisors but instead become use the right melee tool for the job at hand type of fighting.

Edit plus I really want something to counter this lock on evade to back shenanigans thats going on. Its just silly looking in a fight, and shouldnt be a thing. SM are supposed to be better fighters not blink strike assassins.

If such a resistance could be gained it should be dependent on building up a sufficient level of WAAAGH! by having enough Orks grouped together.
That's exactly the idea behind Storm Boys. Hyper-mobile, shock-and-awe troops that zoom around the battlefield attached to rockets and tear through their enemies in melee.
Performing any type of Dodge with a lock-on should cause the player to move in a straight line.
You should still be able to back out if you fail as Orks will otherwise end up dying more simply because they can't retreat from battle when they need to. The Storm Boy still weighs less than the Astartes that is rocket-slamming themselves into the ground so, in terms of balance, it's better for the Ork Slam to be similar to the Astartes one.

All weapons should be able to stun Orks just like they can the other factions; however, the duration of the stuns and the attacks of the weapons(damage/attack speed/etc. etc. values) also need to be adjusted.
For example, a Combat Knife with a Basic Attack speed of 0.3-sec should have a Charge Attack speed of 0.6-sec, with a Stun Duration of 0.1-sec, which would provide the player with 0.2-sec to respond before their enemy's next BA could hit them.

As far as swing arcs go, I think Orks should at the very least have a wider D.Bash attack arc.
Eldar/C/SM should have a narrow one(I.E. 15-degrees). After holding their melee weapon defensively in front of them to Block enemy Basic Attacks, C/SM could perform a powerful downward bash with the weapon and Eldar could make an upward sweep.
The Ork D.Bash would have a wider arc(I.E. 45 to 60-degrees), allowing them to potentially hit multiple targets.

Ork Boys are physically weaker than Astartes, except for temporary circumstances(I.E. the initial adrenaline-fueled charge into melee). They typically try to overwhelm their foe via number of attacks rather than sheer strength.
In the TT this is represented by them gaining Strength +1 on the Charge as well as Attacks +2 instead of just +1.
In EC, the greater number of attacks can be translated as increased attack speed, which in turn allows them to throw a greater number of attacks than their enemies.

All Orks should have the Choppa as their basic melee weapon. Ranged dedicated classes like the Loota would have reduced attack speeds.
Ork Boy Choppa TTK vs SM: 2.4-sec / 2-sec / 1.6-sec, 8 Basic Attacks, 0.3 / 0.25 / 0.2-sec Attack Speed
Loota Choppa TTK vs SM: 2.8-sec / 2.4 / 2-sec, 8 BAs, 0.35 / 0.3 / 0.25-sec AS

Orks should have a WAAAGH! Active Ability with a moderate cooldown(I.E. 15 to 20-sec) that temporarily(I.E. 3 to 5-sec) buffs the user and any Orks nearby(I.E. within 3 to 5-meters) with increased Move/Attack Speed(+16.7%/15% for Lootas) and Reduced Ammo Consumption(-25%).

Basic Orks should passively provide other nearby Orks with 25% of the Active buff but the Active and passive should not stack. Passively, Orks would be able to build up a double/max buff, which would provide 2x the benefits of the Active and could have other boni such as HP regeneration, increase reload speed, etc. etc.
Elites/Heroes would passively provide 50%/100% of the Active buff respectively.

With the ability to reduce their ammo usage, they can own their weapons' lesser accuracy and range by spraying even more bullets than their enlarged magazines normally allow. The ability to shoot while sprinting is not something any faction should have.

As for the bull rush, same logic for an Astartes that weighs more than an Ork. When a player is Sprinting at full speed and Right Clicks to Melee Attack they should perform a Sprint Attack using their weapon, swinging it in an arc so as to potentially hit multiple enemies and applying a minor stun(I.E. Combat Knife 0.2-sec stun).

Orks should be able to be stunned just like any other class as their attacks should not be significantly slower than the other factions'. In fact, they should be even with Astartes speeds, able to reach Eldar levels when fueled by the WAAAGH!.
Basic Attacks should not stun, unless the weapon is Heavy(I.E. Power Axe/Fist/Thunder Hammer) so when fighting any non-Heavy weapon the player should not get stunned from BAs, even if charging an Attack.

Ork strikes should be stronger than Eldar but even with SMs as SMs are actually physically stronger than Orks and so should hit harder; however, to keep the game balanced, Orks are permanently given their extra Charge Strength so that they match SMs damage-wise.

The WAAAGH! should increase Ork Attack/Move Speeds and reduce their Ammo Consumption as default buffs.
Each player should have a temporary WAAAGH! Active ability with a cooldown that buffs them and nearby Orks.
Orks should passively provide a percentage of the Active buff but also be able to stack up to 2x the Active for not only twice the boni but other potential benefits such as HP regen.

If they have their WAAAGH! buffs, yes; otherwise, they are slower.

In order to gain WAAAGH! buffs, they must use their Active ability to gain a temporary buff or they must group together, which does allow for a stronger and more prolonged buff but leaves them more vulnerable to AoE weaponry.

Altering the function of d-bash or heavy attacks seems totaly fine so long as it can still be countered with the appropriate action.

Forgive me if i am misunderstanding but isnt rock paper scissors and "use the right melee tool for the job at hand type of fighting" basicly the same thing?

That is somthing that will in all likelihood be altered more as more data is collected by the dev's, if such a tactic proves consistantly too powerful and is negating the other systems in place it will get fixed. Game being as it is, i wouldnt realy expect any mechanics to be 100% final untill launch and even after that there will still be alterations.