Does not look that polite to me, especially for someone ending to like an idea he began to despise. As you begin by saying my ideas make no sense, which is harsh, to eventually like the post of someone supporting one of them... Try to be coherent is not that hard... or is it because it's my idea ?

So less hypocrisy and more manners would not hurt. I think you can express your disagrement without despising others' idea, can't you ?


Back to topic :

To me, gameplay wise it's weird to play the spiritseer since he's the weaker of the couple, thus the one the more subject to get killed, and even more weird to play a character which can die and leave his pet keep playing on his own... but this is only my opinion.

I'm not getting mad about snipers, I'm just reminding a kid to mind his ton, which looks very natural in my opinion, considering his lastest posts, not only the ones commenting my posts. I think he's a confusing himself with his roleplaying Eldar character.

I have to remind you also the wh40k ip is quite old : it exists since 1987, thus some fans are old too, like me, thus I feel the need to make people respect each other : I'm not your buddy.

Ideas can totally be discussed politely and as civil as possible.

More likely to get killed because you're wearing robes against enemies who use guns with exploding bullets isn't a bad thing. It's logical, and balanced out by the fact you have murderous Wraith-constructs which have amazingly powerful weaponry to defend you with. And, like I've stated, it'd make more sense lorewise for the player to control the Spiritseer.

Oh for the love of everything could you two STOP THIS BULLSHI?!?!?!?! You continue to argue about each other's attitude without adding anythinng valueable to the discussion. Come on you guys, seriously?! One of you keeps taking offence at everything that is not his opinion and the other keeps trying to justify his beliefs. What the hell? I am sick and tired of reading the same opinions reitarated in a more aggressive manner! And then it gets even worse because the two of you go to personal insults! I don't fucking believe it!!!!!

*cools off a little*

Alright, now, regarding the wraithguard: it would make more sense to have the spiritseer as the playable class that can, at the cost of requisition, warp in Wraithblades or wraithguard. HOWEVER, I believe that it will be difficult to script this sort of AI in this kind of game (not a programmer myself, so no clue).

Regarding the Wraithlod and/or Wraithknight: The only way I see them in the game is if they are relics/artifacts discovered throughout the campaign. If the Eldar discover them, the higher ups should be able to deploy them to the battlefield. HOWEVER, these things are one time use only. So if you discover one, you can only deply one. If its destroyed, its gone for good and good luck finding another one.

Regarding Anti-terminator units: everyone knows that the Terminator is a powerhouse that has a lot of heavy weapons like power fists and assault cannons and all that stuff. But they do have one weakness: they are very slow compared to regular Marines. The Eldar should be able to not only outmaneuver them, but also take them down without too much trouble provided they have the right gear (fusion guns and the like) . So there is no dire need to have a slow walking unit with a WTF-a-Gun that pulverises everything, the standard Eldar weaponry should suffice.

I think we handled that already, no need to vent off anymore... I think ?

Considering the terminator would most likely be an elite class, I doubt you'll see one alone thus being easily surrounded with Eldar troops, it will certainly be deployed in hot zones involving lots of players, when resources are gathered enough, and played by players having unlocked it.

As you need to have a strategical view for this game : terminators/nobs in mega armour make the need of an Eldar counter. Bytheway terminators are equipped with a teleport homer by default, and mega armoured nobs can sprint on short distances...

Do note I've not insulted him nor have I shown any sign of anger in my messages, and have simply pointed out what I think is the best way to implement these. I can see why it's tiring to read the same issue being argued, though. Perhaps I should have just said what I think once and left it at that. Since it's obvious I can't convince him otherwise.

That is a good point, that they'd cost resources; they are, after all, constructs as opposed to some magical animal that pet-classes usually use in MMO's. This would also mean the Spiritseer would have to be a great deal more careful when using them, as to prevent any unnecesary damage. Which would fit in wonderfully with the lore.

I think it'd be more sensible to summon them like you suggested the Wraithguard to be summoned, since the Eldar wouldn't leave these things just lying around; only they'd be a great deal more expensive. But then that raises the question if it'll be AI-controlled or player-controlled, and how to implement both of those things - but, like I said, the devs have stated that we're not having Wraithlords or the equivalent of other races at launch.

This I hadn't even considered. Perhaps this would actually fit better than having Wraithguard to counter them. After all, the Eldar SHOULD use tactics other than "use more firepower, that'll sort 'em out"

Altough I don't think we should be able to take them down without a great deal of effort. As much as I'd enjoy killing spess muhreens, a Terminator should be a scary foe. But not scary to the point of being "OH SHI-*dead*" but that is another topic entirely.

Alright, good. Now please, no more mention about who insulted whom and the like. Just focus on the discussion.

The Eldar will, most likely, have to startegize for evrything, from small skirmishes to larger battles. This is simply because there will, most likely be fewer Eldar players than any other faction.

About the teleporting thing of the Terminators: I think it will be in their spawn mechanic and not actual battlefield use, but we will have to see about that (My opinion is in the respawning section on how this can be done).

As for being in a hot zone, I am convinced that a well coordinated squad will be able to poke at these hulking things well enough to take them down. With the Eldar's numerical disadvantage, it is important to note that coordination is at least as important as firepower, if not more so.

You're over confident about Eldar powers, as you underestimate your foes. As already said, terminators are equipped with teleport homer by default, this device allows them to teleport frequently on short distances on the battlefield, I can't figure a terminator without such a device, since it's this very device which allows them to deep strike into enemy lines. No teleport homer, no deep strikes thus no terminator squad : as simple as that.
This is not the same for heroes equipped with terminator armour, like a captain or a librarian, though teleport homers are very usual equippments for terminator armours.

The same goes for mega armoured nob, they can sprint frequently or even may have a teleport thingy made by a mekboy.

As bad as you think a wraithguard counter is, being played by a player or being a pet, Eldar will need a counter to those elite classes.

I doubt fire dragons could make it close enough to kill a terminator (default range weapon is a stormbolter) and they are the only units you listed which could make it. Thus there is a need of a hard counter.

A very valid point. You are correct: the Eldar need a counter to the Terminators and similar enemy units. What I believe, however is that Wraithguard are not the only option to go against the big enemies.

Here I'll be taking a step away from the "Wraithguard or no Wraithguard" discussion and back to "Our 5 Classes" discussion.

Now, a Terminator suit, from what I understand, has very heavy armor and needs some anti-armor weapons to punch through it. So let us take a look at other Eldar possibilities to take on enemy amor. We have had a very in depth discussion about the Wraithguard/Spiritseer combo to take on terminator, and I presume enemy armor as well. What about other options? Fire Dragon? From what I understand they can be specialised in tank hunting, having access to fusion guns, moe powerful las guns and plasma guns (Eldar do have plasma, don't they?), so they might be a possible counter to terminators, though nowhere near as armored up.

Another possibility is to have mechanic-like class that can deploy weapon platforms, such as the brightlance and D-Cannon. Though it will take a moment and will require very good timing on the part of the squad, if done right, it can be a very sufficient counter to armor and thus Terminators.

Lastly, I do recall that some Power Weapons were capable of punching through armor, so maybe the melee units will be capable of taking some of them down. Needless to say, running up to a Terminator to slice his head off is a thankless task indeed.

The concern about terminators teleporting is also a very valid one. But as you mentioned, lorewise not every single Terminator has a teleport beackon, though a lot of them do. I guess it is something a player can get through requisition upon gaining the Terminator armor, but I don't want to discuss how the Terminators will work because a) There is most likely this discussion in the Space Marine forum and b) this thread is about the Eldar classes and last I checked, terminators are not classified as such.

Not to mention, Teminators can get equipped with Autocannons and other nasty stuff. Just think about it. They are the elite in the elite ^^ The honour to wear a terminator power armor is earned after a long service and/or crazy achievements. So, I'd doubt you will see terminators as easy prey or acting alone. They will most likely form the spearhead of attack groups, especially assault terminators with their storm shield and hammer.
Nobs are same story. Elite, hulking behemoths, who got surpassed only by the Warboss himself.
They both rip normal infantry to shreds in seconds.

Tactics vise, while we do have great abilities in hit-and-run and the like, we do need a solid counter. You cant expect the Scorpions and Banshees to go toe-to-toe with a Nob or Terminator oO
Even a warlock/Farseer would have a hard time with these behemoths...
Solid counters would be like: Dark Reaper, Fire Prism, Brightlance platform, Wraithguard/blade/lord aaaaand... pretty much this is it. Fire Dragons are a nice alternative, but the melta needs too close range.
The others just dont have the punch to deal with the heavy elite armor type. Warp Spiders, Avangers, Banshees, Scorpions, ect. are not designed to kill elites. Get a Lightning Claw Terminator and it will butcher a lot of eldar before it goes down.

Brightlance and D-Cannon are both quite valid setup-team like weaponry ^^ Would need a guardian team to deploy it :3 The only issue to solve with this is the teleport they get ^^; (tho both D-cannon and Brightlance got a crazy range xD)

Fire Dragons by default got a Fusion gun, which works with the Melta rules. Only problem is its close range (nearly melee...). They can get a Pike (the Exarch's weapon, has a longer range, uses Melta rules) but their common loadout is the fusion gun + melta bomb. And thats it ^^; Eldar have better plasma tech :3 But each aspect is tied to a certain weapon set! The melta weapons are tank hunter stuff anyways ^^

Also the Star/Suncannon needs a mention which is a perfected plasma heavy weaponry, used by Guardian teams or vehicles that can do some nasty things x)

Power weapons are nice, banshees, warlocks, farseer, all get power weapons. Scorpions, Hawks sadly dont ^^;
These can hack though the armor of a terminator yes. Mostly the concern for the eldar is not the power weapon, but their staying power. Warlock and Farseers have a solid chance to kill a terminator. Banshees... not so much. They are more for killing normal infantry in my opinion.