pretty sure guardsmen have 6+ save at base. and it doesnt matter if you have a 6+ or a 5+, anything like that IRL would be shredded through by a bolter. there really isnt any chance a bolt isnt going to be stopped by flak armor. nor ork skin. and after it gets through your armor, you just lost your entire chest cavity, which includes your heart. eldar are fast enough to avoid the bolt outright (provided they are already moving) anyway--the same goes for eldar....so your point is moot. both eldar and dark eldar are glass cannons a lot of the time.
You might notice that in that post I indicated flak armor is 5+, and it's fairly easy for IG to field carapace armor for 4+ on Veterans, which are a versatile Troops choice. Though IG's primary methods to improve survivability will still be putting an AV 12 Chimera hull between them and the enemy, and using their smaller hit boxes to make better use of cover. Squishiness is no bar to being in the game (though some people here disagree with that), because you *can* simply avoid getting hit, but you can't go pretending that DE are less squishy than IG. That BDSM gear the DE try to pass off as armor doesn't even hold a candle to Flak armor, and most of the time it's not even going to stop a lasgun.
ok here it is. the dark eldar are elite. they are elite because they are fast. the IG are bout fielding SHITTONS of troops with flashlights and armor. Sure, the flashlights are lethal, and sure, the flak is like bulletproof armor X2, but compared to other shit, they dont stand a chance. And they have no skill, and no speed. The dark eldar guns are better, they are faster...a firefight between an IG and DE unit warrior unit, who wins?
Point for point, and in a firefight, it's actually the IG. The Splinter Rifle's attributes mean it will be wounding on 4+ just like the lasgun against their T3, but the IG are going to be putting out double the volume of fire. If the IG are under a FRFSRF order it'll be 3x or 4x the volume of fire (depending on range), which will be an absolute curb stomp in IG's favor. Since the IG also has more upgrade options for their troops than DE (in fact, more than almost any other army), a kitted-out IG squad would be able to curb-stomp DE model for model in a firefight. This isn't surprising of course, IG are the second-strongest shooting army in the game. Only the Tau put out more dakka than them, at the expense of weaker vehicles and even worse melee. Now, DE will win in melee because they are a melee-oriented army and the IG is not. That's called asymmetric balance. So if you really want to beat IG as DE, get into melee. IG vs DE would be quite a fun fight for both sides.
you...have convinced me somewhat. however, i want them to be allies with the imperium--although dawn of war had them be enemies, its not often that the guard and marines fight eachother if they are both loyalist--especially in a war as important as this. also--that was a legitimate question. i wasnt sure who would win XD
Of course, one interesting thing about DE is that since their basic weapons are Poisoned (4+), they are probably the best faction for taking down Monstrous Creatures. T6 Carnifex? Pffft, wounds on the same roll as a T3 Guardsman. They can dakka absolutely any Tyranid to death. It's a rather interesting weapon, but the ability to completely ignore Toughness like that is rather useless (or even backfires slightly) when you're shooting at a T3 model.
thus, why they are perfect vs marines of any kind, and TERRIBLE vs nids, orks and guard--they field so many guys, that its irrelevant that they ignore toughness.
Exactly, they can't kill me and my fellows when there is nothing left alive to shoot back. The best defence is a good offence.
