I think we can simply agree that both perspectives are pointless, because both lore and gameplay are determined by GW's sales and profit - which means, by a landslide, marines are untouchable to the lesser races.
Orks are not so bad but their power attack stun should be looked at as it can keep other melee focused troops in a stun lock till they die.
Biggest thing I'm seeing is that Ork Lootas have some pretty incredible weapon variety compared to the other factions. That's about it. Sort out melee bugs before changing Orkz, and maybe bring everyone else's Tac equivalents in line with the Shoota.
I was more talking about the double grenades, Corner Pop Rocket Floor Shooting Oneshots, and the Big Shoota being a really solid value for the cost(I'm going to look at the extra 20 pen with envy eternal). It's probably the only twin linked worth taking. Also, standard bolter is quite terrible without the Heavy Barrel and moving spread reduction grip. You also starve for ammunition without the drum/box. That said, it is a measure better than the standard shoota once you have those.
Oh dude no...the Big Shoota is ass. Like no one uses it. It's meant to be the longer range Shoota but it's accuracy is so god awful bad at long range you never hit the target haha.
This is why nerfing Eldar was never the solution. If you nerf 1 faction, another will take its spot but the worst faction will ALWAYS REMAIN THE WORST FACTION
I am ork and should not be giving this away but our D Bash looks like a crouch and then lunge forward to head butt. Its not fast...just hard to see especially when spamming fast attack. I think Orks should be strong as melee...they are considered the up close army. Eldar should have best guns but with exception of banshees they should be weaker melee. Orks are opposite the Eldar. Marines and Chaos are a mix. Orks, imho, have range weapons that can not hit a damn thing unless very close up. On my shoota and Loota I get facerolled by everything. A lot of people spam fast attack and I believe the d bash is the counter correct? So try power attack more? I know when a power attack hits my b bash I lose. They did fix painboys up. They were horrible before...now they spam fast attack like the marines. D bash us to counter it. If that IS the counter...I use it cause it works vs fast attack spam. At of the last few days I have been having a horrible time, as ork, vs chaos marines and their healers! The eldar even seem easy compared. My slugga, using shield and electro ax, went toe to toe with a marine using their equal set up. We both just kept bouncing off each other not doing much. Stalemate ended when his buddy gunned me down from behind. =)
just make sure you are not mistaking ork fast attacks which are still kinda slow and telegraphed for strong attacks.
