Orks are so resillient both to shots and a bayonet in this example. Hell, they can survive having their head cut off and all of their limbs. If this was the case and Imperial Guard could just equip everyone with bayonets and hack away Orks as easily as grass. If a Imperial guard could just run up to a Nob and spear him and kill him instantly, Orks would have been extinct a long time ago. Perhaps you forget a Ork "leader" once choked the Emporer to near death. So Imperial guard ruinating a Normal Ork, with humoungus bulk and strength, don't think so. Not to say it's like Space Marine, where Imperial Guard also has the strength of a grot, but again a average Ork boy has the size of 2 meters and pure muscle. Perhaps this discussion is turning into one of those *Something* Versus *Something* videos with facts and such About the Avatar choking, I think we all agree on that... But again, EC is a game. The Gameplay will need to be fair and I will hop so fast to Space Marine if Salamanders appear or Iron Warriors if Orks rely on numbers to pose a threat. All I hope is that Orks will show their true strength and not be weak as hell. I think it would be unfair for a Tac. Space Marine to be able to run around alone and actually kill, but then on the other hand a Ork Boy would be slaughtered if venturing alone. But we will see I guess!
Yes of course Orks rely on numbers in the lore, but it seems you forgot we're talking about a game. "Lets do so one faction with a low population already will 100% depend on their player numbers or else they will be crushed! seems like a good and fair idea right? Right." With Space Marines already taking half the players it seems so far, why should one faction follow so strict to the lore, that a competetive player will stand no chance with that faction unless he will be required to join a clan or search for groups and on-going battles to even be taken serious. I would run straight for Iron Warriors or Salamanders (If they came) if it was official that Orks would rely on numbers. This is a game where the gameplay Needs to be right, get Your shit straight. This is not a Lore discussion, but a way to balance the Orks in the Game. Lore will be the second most important thing, but Gameplay is where the focus is or else EC might aswell turn into a novel. A battle hardened Ork is not necessarily a Nob. Could be a Skarboy or I would say a 'ard boy. In the case above, you could also look at TT for valid sources. bE does that aswell. They've explained that the way they determine wether a unit is Elite or Hero or normal, is somewhat determined if you look at the Elites and HQ's. Kommandos being a great example. (They're elites.)
1) People that don`t like Orks think that we are weak (mostly cause of 3rd point). 2) People that like orks think everyone else is weak. 3) Every faction novel will show how that faction is strongest. Take the basics from warhammer ip and develop story how you want it (war ip gives us a lot of freedom). EDIT: About that multiple char control suggestion. That is not possible due to ork model size. Imagine if you had 5 boyz to counter 1 marine how would ork boy player avoid grenade or any aoe based weapon (even 2 boyz would make new fps player have 100% accuracy vs boyz)? One game implemented multiple char control as 1 char (allods online - gibberling race) and showed us that this kind of thing is possible but it only works on small sized races (could be used on IG, space dwarves if they ever get introduced again or lesser ork species).
I have read a lot of this, and I've arrived to an ultimate conclusion: Both the TT and Lore are bad sources for the game. Neither suit the gameplay balance - and balance MUST be achieved to make a good game. TT has stats that, when transferred into gameplay, make it too powerful or too weak. Lore has a lot of inconsistentcy. One time, one space marine defeats a whole company of enemies - the other - he dies from something he has survived against a million of times. Best way is to keep both Lore and TT at the mind while adjusting the gameplay. Gameplay above ALL. I did mention this on the IG faction suggestion, but few players liked it. Some things like cover and aiming problems were introduced. Allods online is not a shooter. It doesn't rely much on hitboxes, stealth and shooting. But how will you make a group of characters shoot a spot without, lets say, one guardsman at the back hitting the other? Or when you run to cover, how annoying it is to have one guard always stick out and get shot. And grenades. So yeah, my idea wasn't really accepted. But hey, if you find a way around this, go ahead.
They can always make 2 guards support the main 1. "You as main" crouch = 2 guards next to you/behind you crouch, you shoot at something = they shoot in that direction. They can always put 2 extra guards there just for animations if nothing else. Model would be wide as lets say ork or space marine but shorter. They could clump models so there are no gaps between them but it still looks like they are not attached. Only negative (if you can call it negative) would be 3 possible heads to shoot but heads would be small. 2 extra guards would have no damage on their own, would provide only animation backup but bodies would be arranged so there are no gaps as i said before which would mean that in general they can make it count as 1 body from feet till neck. They can either arrange them so even heads count as single body or make 3 heads with small hitbox. There is solution for everything. EDIT: About extra guards shooting at you should not be an issue. When they get to this stage they would have already finished dealing with hard issues.
Exactly - I believe people get a bit too hooked up to the fluff at times here. We aren't trying to simulate something here, we are trying to make a fun and challenging game, and if we have to go with the fluff, you can be damn sure this game wouldn't be fun - Space Marines would be roughly 1,7 % of the population on the planets, Eldar wouldn't be taking territory, Tyranids would swarm the planets instead of pop up here and there... It won't be completely lore-friendly. Not that I object to using the lore to help direct the crunch, but it shouldn't control it. The way I see it, all players are somewhat equal no matter who they are - All standard classes have a fighting chance against another faction's. That doesn't mean the stats are the same, though: Marines are tough and accurate with efficient gear and armor, while Orks have more health and and less armor, and weapons that make up for their shortcomings of low ballistic skill, Eldar are fast and have a small hitbox but comparable smaller amount of health, that sort of thing. I do agree to Sanji's idea of a WAAAGH - As the going gets tough, the tough should be going. I just don't want to rely on it, because if this game will be anything like Planetside 2, all wars will be started by a small group of indiviuals taking unfortified areas by themselves, and if we can't do that, we're screwed. Also, as a fan of the Kommandos, reliance on the mob isn't exactly a nice thing to me.
