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Open letter to Oveur

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zhull, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Zhull Zhull Well-Known Member

    @Oveur


    Hi Nathan!

    Hope all is well and that you are enjoying your morningtea as you read this on a mondaymorning.
    I am writing this on a saturday so unless the zombieapocalypse happens in the meantime you read this on a monday morning, funny how time works doesnt it, its like that film inception, you ever seen...I digress.

    It was a nice surprise to see Angry Joe doing a livestream after you guys, good job in getting him to do that.
    Launch could be better, launch could be worse.
    But thats life, sometimes you just play the hand you're dealt with, I get it.

    I'm writing this open letter to try and convey some points that me and I think several others are bothered by.
    I will speak here solely for myself, allow me to explain my point of view and by the end of this you hopefully will understand where vocal critics such as myself are coming from.

    2013 I became aware of EC...awesome!
    I followed the website as it gradually revealed info about factions, when the forums came online, etc.
    The 'pre you' era, the 'you era', I saw it all.
    I don't need to describe to you the change of scope this game has seen since you know way more about it than I ever will.

    I can however tell you something you do not seem to know: the impression this whole project has made on an outsider/ casual gamer.
    This isnt going to be a ' j'accuse' (HA! French..Canada...get it?) so please stay with me.

    The scope of the game went down, and let's be honest for a minute, this isnt a mmo.
    If I would ask random gamers what they think of when I say mmo, they will most likely describe a WoW type game.
    I understand the plans you have for the future and I believe you.
    Except you sell the game now, not in the future and there isnt a 'buy now, pay later once it goes mmo' payment option.

    Now I can grasp the concept that gamedesigning has all sorts of issues that can drastically change things, but honestly, how do you go from a 'this game is fully funded' scenario to what we have now?
    Are you aware of the prices at the game's store?
    You can imagine how bad that makes the game look; 40-50 euros, then another 20 on top of that to have 4 cosmetic items.
    I heard you say the game is a persistent world, I keep seeing huge this and massive that.
    It's as persistent a world as any fps, as in you get to keep the advancements you made, to call the world persistent is like saying the very first supermario brothers game on NES was persistent because each time the levels you play through are the same.

    Thing is, I'm not stupid, I can deal with dissapointments, changes, it's a part of life and I dont see how it would be different in gamedevelopment.
    What I can't deal with, is people trying to spin a story.
    Now I know you came and cleaned up from what I can only imagine was a huge mess and delivered us a game, and for that you deserve recognition, but fact remains is that this games coped down and down, and then some more, over the course of 3 years while it was fully funded.
    So at a certain point you can only use that excuse so many times until people cant be bothered to hear it.
    You may not have caused the issues or set out the policies yourself, yet you are now the main face of a game that is not delivering upon its initial goals, yet has no problem to ask pretty high prices for cosmetics, yet delivering a very mediocre gameplay experience with, interesting promises for the future.

    So with the eye on the future, because I actually hope there will be a future for EC here's a list of humble suggestions I hope you will read and consider:

    - Be mindful of what you say during twitches when it comes to dates, game-aspects etc. You probably say things because you have a heart for the game and are excited, but when something diverts from the way you said it, it will be perceived by many (rightfully or not, irrelevant) as 'yet another broken promise'

    - Recap all of the info that is out there and focus on being as clear as possible, right now it's confusing as hell.
    There's pieces of info that come from what is said from twitch, or a interview, then there's a FAQ, etc.
    Make one central point, in the media of your choice, and WRITE it down.
    Be short, yet precise.
    It gets posted at that central point, and AFTER it has been posted you can mention it in twitches etc.
    This will mean you have no reveals during twitches, true, but it allows you to have a script.
    Everyone in your team can look up the script/faq/whatever you call it, and know what (parts of) information is public knowledge and what isnt.

    Clearity for all.

    -Drop RTC prices dramatically, this just screams MONEYGRAB.
    I personally dont think you guys are about that, but its the way it comes across that counts.
    EC charges a close to a tripple A price already, and I'm sorry to say, it doesnt live up to the price.
    High RTC prices will annoy people even more.
    I know the initial price will include feature dlc, expansion etc. but that isnt the point.
    Miguel once made the (hilarious) comparison of a date.
    EC and its playerbase as if its a couple on a date.
    Well, to use that analogy: EC right now is like being a date with a really gross chick, I mean, you're not sure cos the candlelight is obscuring good vision and you have yet to see her mother, so you cant be a 100% sure she is going to turn out to be a troll, but she is also demanding that I take her to a expensive club to go dancing later after dinner and vaguely hints at giving me a handjob.
    I'm not sure right now if I wanna take things that far.

    -Rethink your priorities.
    As I've already said a dozen times, and again, no offense, this game doesnt have any features that another game doesnt do better.
    It has a warhammer 40k theme, and thats cool, and there are sometimes battles that get intense, it gives me hope and I forgive the many issues ive encountered for a while, then my experience sinks back into mediocracy.
    This game right now doesnt need focus on PVE, it needs to go full steam to something that will truly set it apart.
    First thing that comes to my mind is something you have mentioned earlier: a 16km by 16km sandbox zone.
    Forget about new maps, subclasses and PVE, chase the FUN.
    Now if for whatever reason it can not work right now, communicate that clearly in an as open way as is possible for you.
    Don't say: 'yeah we are working on it' rather say 'we've actually had a testmap but we ran into latency problems where it would just crash with over 200 plyers'
    That makes a huge difference, players will read something concrete, that you are actually working on it.
    Again, the huge zone is what im personally convinced of what would make a huge difference, but perhaps you already cooked something up yourself.


    Following the line of thinking of that previous point: I think it was in the latest SoTC you wrote something along the lines of 'we can understand some are unhappy, maybe take a break from the game and check it out in 6 months'.
    I think that is a very wrong attitude:
    It's up for sale now, you ask roughly 50 bucks for it now and you got a hefty priced RTCshop that is fully functioning right now.
    It pisses people off, Nathan.
    Unless you're willing to sell me RTC stuff and ill pay in 6 months time?
    How about charging 50% for the game right now, and then the other until the rest of the game is implemented in the near future?
    It's just as silly in its logic.



    In short: this game CAN make it, but there needs a lot to change in marketing, communication and in its prioritylist for features.
    The way things are now is pissing people off, and there is only so many times you can say soon, in the future etc.

    I hope you understand where im coming from, and more than that, I hope at least some points made you (re)think certain aspects of the game right now and where it is going.
  2. Cassanova Cassanova Arkhona Vanguard

    Can you please talk normally, all you do is derail conversations and give people a headache trying to understand you.

    As for OP yeah you hit alot of points but even then i think your a bit to forgiving.
    DiscoJacen likes this.
  3. A few things I'd disagree with or rather I have a more negative impression of, but over all well written.

    That's all I shall say without risking this to be locked.
    DiscoJacen likes this.
  4. That's the nice thing about the internet you can agree to disagree and keep it civil when they become uncivil is when I step in. That in mind please keep this post civil.
  5. Gazrick Gazrick Well-Known Member

    Nice post and agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of not the specifics, I think you're being a bit harsh but yea a few changes would probably be very positive.
  6. Zhull Zhull Well-Known Member

    haha, one comments im way too forgiving, another that im a bit too harsh, I think im right in the middle then eh?
    :p
  7. Gazrick Gazrick Well-Known Member

    I mean dat date and troll chat do. Dayumm.

    You ain't far off.
  8. 100% agree with the cosmetics shop prices. It doesn't matter that I personally have XXXXXX amount of RTP because I am an idiot and purchased a dream, and then funded said dream for another year with a subscription I didn't think about. People are getting 20k RTP with game (at least they were with alpha?), and, well when I kitted out my ork, I spent 24k, and didn't even hit some of the expensive items. My Chaos Marine doesn't have access to everything yet, but I fear for my wallet when the "classic" raptor designs come out. 8k for the Helmet?" You have to be touched in the head. Lets not even mention the boning that Eldar are currently getting with their "customization" . I'm worried prices like that will push other (newer) players away from buying RTP and getting all the awesome cosmetics because it hurts us.
    Veldoran_the_Warlock likes this.
  9. Nimrock Nimrock Well-Known Member

    Yes... I agree completely.
    Steam reviews are going down. If we want something to change they need act quickly but carefull.
    DiscoJacen likes this.
  10. Necroledo Necroledo Well-Known Member

    Good post, OP. Clear, to the point and civil.

    About the excessive pricing and the RTC prices: I can name a game which had its own share of that (as well as paid DLCs) which caused it to almost die despite being a genuinely good game, and which had a recent revival by becoming F2P: Evolve. Don't follow that path, devs.

    And I completely agree on the points about "this is how the general public will see this". It doesn't matter how hard have you been working, how much you have "pleased" the Founders or the W40k fans: that is not the general public. The gaming community has become extremely picky (for very valid reasons), and if you combine it with how social the Internet is, I fear this game might be quickly stomped into the mud by anyone who perceives anything as wrong. That is how hate trains appear. You can't please everyone, and stupid people do exist, but better try not to give them any reasons or opportunities to say "this game sucks". Be careful with what you disclose, how, and where. But don't forget about giving regular updates, even if it just means a single screenie from a CAD program.

    I'm not a game designer of any kind, but this is what I would like as a customer. This game means a lot to me as a W40k and shooter games fan, and I'm happy to see how much it has improved. I would hate to see it die and fade into the background of mediocrity and small playerbases. Please devs, hear what OP has to say!
    DiscoJacen, Braken and Sofferenza like this.

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