This thread is in response to a few things that were brought up here:
http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/who-needs-terminators-poll.42983/

From the very beginning, months and months ago when I first joined the forums, from the games very conception I had the assumption that when you made your character you would choose one of the classes for whatever faction you selected and that is what he would be for the duration of that characters lifespan. I was inactive for a few months in between then and now and somewhere along the way it was confirmed that it wouldn't be that way, that you would in fact be able to play any class tied to that faction with a single character, maybe that's how it was supposed to be all along and I simply didn't know any better.

I want to start by saying if you read everything I have to say and the best you can contribute to this discussion is "stop complaining" then please, stop right now, that doesn't do either of us any good and is a waste of both our time. This news caught me completely by surprise and I have the right to voice my concerns about it even if they fall upon deaf ears. If this has been addressed before, my apologies, I skimmed through the forums but I didn't find anything on the subject. That being said I will try and be courteous myself and be respectful of any intelligent/valid viewpoints brought against me as I will expect the same in return.

Now, there are a few points I'd like to go over starting with, for lack of a better way of describing it, a complete lack and any kind of character identity. The whole 'be an elite soldier of the 41st millennium.' feels rather shallow and falls short does it not ? You aren't an elite anything anymore but rather just some random soldier at any given time, a jack of all trades, playing as what ever class will give you an advantage at that point in time just because it is convenient to do so.

If you're allowed to pick any of the classes at will then there is no attachment to your character because at it's base, isn't it nothing more then a doppelganger at this point ? A shape changer that is anything and everything as opposed to "an elite soldier" someone that has struggled through losses, achieved great victories, a grizzled veteran of the campaign on Arkhona. A character that has a story behind it, has a history inside EC rather then just a handful of soldiers that have done nothing more than slapped each other around.

This turns EC into nothing more then some twitch shooter on par with CoD with the different classes along the lines of custom loadouts more then anything. I know that last comment is a gross generalization and not to be taken absolutely serious but do you understand where I am coming from ? If we are allowed to simply change classes then why have character slots in the first place ?

If you are allowed to play them all, and advance down whatever tech tree is allotted to them individually then why limit a character to a single faction ? By that logic, do away with character slots, simply pick one of the factions when you log in, choose a chapter or legion and then your class because none of those restrictions matter at this point. If you want to play just one legion you can, one faction you can, no one stopping you but those that want to play them all without a character limit should be able too.

I do understand that the portion of you that are for this one character any class system are because we can still just play one class if we want and that the rest that would like to play more have that option. What I am talking about doesn't limit just me to one class but everyone, it's a selfish view and I will be the first to admit that. My problem isn't so much with what being able to play more classes brings to the table as much as it is what that would take away from a single class character system.

In the end I get the feeling that nothing will change in regards to this, that this is simply the way it is going to be and I'm stuck with it. I'm just very disappointed, this leaves a foul taste in my mouth and I wanted to talk about if only to get it off my chest, to see how other people view this and maybe let others know... I mean, I can't be the only one that didn't know this is how the game would be am I? AM I!

Knowing now, this is the way it's going to be, I might have held off on becoming a founder, hell I might not even have and instead waited until launch and tried the f2p version to see if this is even for me. I have no one to blame for that but myself, I had this idea in my head about how things would be and never really bothered to look into it more closely. This isn't a childish vendetta against EC, a threat that if they don't change it I'll quit, I'm not throwing a fit because it's not how I want it and is more that at the end of the day, this very well might not be the game for me.

/end wall of text.

(We are not talking about hero classes or rp costing classes here, just the basic classes that have alot more meaning overall)

I agree, I would really like for your class to be more personal and have more meaning.
Also with the progression tree they talk about, how much meaning does it have if your character can switch class on the fly? If I play a devastator and want to main damage over anything else, than switch to a apothecary (where I'd want to progress in support) do my stats change but not any of my gear or armor? I think that having it as an entirely different character will give it more meaning in that regard.
I agree, it does seem like a jack of all trades how they have it currently, it also reminds me of an arena shooter instead of an actual MMO too.

It also gives a bit more meaning to tactical play, choosing what class you will play prior to even getting in game, it also adds more meaning to your faction, as instead of having just one character per sub-faction, you will have more and play that faction more rather than just faction jumping around.

If bE do want to get that MMO feel right, but still be a badass shooter/fighter, this is one of the things that can do that.

I feel like, seeing as my comments have been specifically used in this thread, that maybe I need to respond, whether you deem my comments to be intelligent or not is up to you I suppose. I would say that yes, you are right, you have had a thorough misconception of what this game was going to be from the very beginning, because I have been here as long if not longer than you (I had the same forum jump naming issue as you did) and I have always known this would be what this game would look like.
The reason you don't just make it open slather choose whatever the heck you want faction/subfaction wise is because each of the sub factions are having their own twists and spins on the classes, while an ultramarine or dark angel can expect to have an apothecary, the blood angels will have their sanguinary priests and the space wolves will have their rune priests, dark angels will have their monk outfits, space wolves will have their trinkets, Night Lords will have their bat wings and Iron Warriors will whatever Iron Warriors have. There are plenty of options to be immersive if you are willing to take them. And I would agree, yes, you should be able to attach different armour and gear to the different classes you have, of course, because why would I want my purity seal that is buffing my range ability because of my amazing skills as a tactical taking up space on my assault where I need my other purity seal that buffs my melee damage.
The reason you don't lock everyone into one specific class from the very beginning and give them no flexibility to deal with situations on the fly is because THIS IS A SHOOTER. There are MMO, RPG, FPS, dungeon crawler and whatever other types of gaming being thought of getting thrown in here, but at the end of the day you have a gun and you are shooting the other guy with a gun until one of you dies. I certainly hope you had picked up that much in your time here both now and in the past. Now in a shooter where PVP is the vast majority of the game, you need to give people the flexibility to change between classes when they are trying to take a facility, because if you don't, and they haven't built their character in the right way to deal with the real people defending that facility, then they might as well pack up and go home, because there is no purpose they can serve in that battlefield. Imagine the following scenario:
- Fortress under attack:
- Attackers bring heavy armour in the form of predator tanks
' Hey everyone, we need to spawn some heavy hitting anti-armour, so we need as many fire dragons as we can get'
'Sorry man, like half of us have roled banshees, sooooooo do you have any fast attack melee that needs to be done?'
'No, i need anti armour, what am I meant to do with you guys in this tactically important scenario'
'Ummmmm I don't know, i just really wanted to be a banshee.
- Everyone dies, fortress is lost
(I can do generalised oversimplifications too)
Why? because on an individual level, maybe they had made a choice that was strategic for them, but in the grand scheme of a PVP large scale battle they were just chewing their elbows and becoming an strategic hinderance to their faction. And there is no way you can know what the strategic necessities are going to be until the battle gets started.

TL;DR Cupcake is right, each class should be fully customisable with gear and armour. Putrefaction is right, in that he was wrong about what this game is going to be, and that no one is going to change it simply because he writes a wall of text.

I believe this swapping of classes is another import from THQ's Space Marine TPS.
You could do this in Multiplayer matches whilst taking extra time between re-spawns.

Plus, considering there isn't the classic levelling up of standard RPG-fare but a lateral progression, it makes similar sense for you to have slots representing classes that you have a wide selection of wargear for so you can spend time on the Strike Cruiser to make your class builds and not whilst you're trying to battle.

So you can have your favourite build of your favourite class in one slot and have the other slots for the builds and classes you're trying out.


Though I always wanted them to add an un-lockable Elite/Veteran slot in SM. One that could represent either Vanguard and Sternguard, that you unlocked through the Tactical class plus either Devastator or Assault Classes. But you could have only one Elite/Veteran build at a time.

Would be nice if the Hero and Elites were like that, one build of each at a time.

Make it so that you pick a subfaction, and then get to make ~2 characters of each class, per current character slot then... Meaning that you can pick 4 subfactions in which you get a LOT of characters in. Good luck coming up with names for your Eldar...

Honestly im not seeing an issue here, your personal roleplaying or character investment isnt lost on you just cause everyone else is given the ability to swap around like crazy.

You just stick to your one class and thats it, there will be tons of development/progression/cosmetics and so on for each class, so taking one up to the max will be a journey of bonding in its own right.
There will also be the "Veterancy" system, called the Chosen class for us CSM. Which is basically an ability to spawn as a greater version of your basic class for a fee, and its there in place for people who dont want to spawn Termies and vehicles so they are also sinking their resources somewhere and ofc for those who want to go further with their own basic class.

Theres more then enough grounds to get invested into your little champion. I know i will, i will be playing my Aspirant as him mainly, only sharing his slot when i rank up a Tactical when Death Guard arrives (for that sweet Plague Marine goodness). Besides that ill be in Asiprant mode 24/7 cause i too enjoy being in 1 archetype and really getting into it. When i wanna make a Raptor he will take another slot of his own, cause im not too sold on a DG Raptor concept.

So in conclusion like i said before you being phased by this has noone to blame but yourself im afraid, for taking it so much to heart, primarily cause there are means for you not to partake in this immersion breaking and still have loads of fun. If you were forced id have full sympathy and be on the sidelines protesting along with you, that is not the case thankfully.

You understand how many character slots and money it would be to not be able to switch?

What's the difference between creating 4 characters and log out to change your class or changing classes whenever you die? the only difference is that one of them don't waste your time and money (character slots cost 10$), the game has no vertical progression, no need to grind levels to unlock skills that backwards mechanic is 100% unnecessary on EC.

If you have a problem with it you can simply not change your class.

The system provides tactical variety, but individual class skill trees mean that, to be the master of a class, you have to spend all your XP focussing on becoming the best assault/tactical/devastator/etc possible. It's also friendly to those who don't know what they want to be, especially when they are starting out, and doesn't punish them for picking a class they don't like. Yes, having one class a character does stop faction hopping for those who want multiple classes, but it just really destroys variation and tactical play for those who don't want to have to log out to change tactics; all options are open, but maybe not so optimised because of separate skill trees. Let players experience larger parts of what the game has to offer, including all the races, rather than shoehorning players, especially those who are new to 40k. Variety is the spice of life, and just makes games more enjoyable.

One class only is a more hardcore style, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

CptRedeared I'm glad you posted, I want to say now that I wasn't trying to single you out or anything along those lines and that your quote is just there as an example of what my issue with all this is, and I didn't want to derail Bladerunners thread further, nothing personal.

As I expected, I am a major minority where this is concerned and that's okay, BE wouldn't have it set up this way if it wasn't what the masses wanted. I clearly had this misconception on how things would be and it exploded in my face, I take responsibility for that, I should have looked into this much more closely.

I understand that being able to change factions and chapters/legions and so on, on the fly is absurd, that they each have their own flavor and a variety of things that separates one from the other. I used that example to emphasize that exact same argument on a smaller scale for the classes, that each class, as you put it, has their own twists and spins. Is it not at least somewhat the same ? Tacticals are different from Sorcerers like Ultramarines differ from Blood Angels, that's where I was headed, more or less with that.

Different armor and equipment isn't part of my problem, playing pimp my space marine isn't something I have an issue with, not where this thread is concerned anyway. Having equipment that has no/zero synergy from one class to another, a buff to range ability on your Assault as an example isn't what I was getting at obviously since you wouldn't pick things that wouldn't work with the single class you chose to play.

The inability to deal with every situation is a good thing in my mind, at least to a degree, you lose a lot in the way of teamwork when you don't need a squad member/faction member to deal with any given threat and can just spawn in to counter whatever threat is present and take care of business yourself. You don't need a versatile squad when you can spawn back and forth and that's not to say squads composed entirely of one class wouldn't work too, it's all situational but you would need to work closer with others, in theory anyway.

Being able to spawn as multiple classes or just one has no bearing on having weapons and killing people, I'm sorry I don't understand where you were going with that. Not having the right class for the job constantly is another part of what I am getting at, that puts the responsibility on the player or even further on a much higher level "Guilds" or faction leaders to ensure these lopsided events don't take place or pay the price for it. I'll concede that yes, that would be a drag for players on the outside looking in, but if that's the case, don't put yourself in those situations, this lends itself a lot into having one class, knowing your roll and playing accordingly.

Again, thanks for posting, I hope you don't take any of what I've said as a personal attack, we just don't see eye to and and that's cool, I have no problem with that. And it's very possible I am making mountains out of mole hills, but when you think somethings going one way and it's in fact running full speed in the opposite direction it's a little shocking and again, I will take responsibility for that.

The funny/ironic thing Djemo is that I don't RP in games, this whole thread and my subsequent issues with these decisions is that I had envisioned something that hasn't really been done before you know ? The way is currently is, at the core of it, is pretty much just a clone of the same games out there now, just a very generic, stale and rather uninspired knock off with Warhammer skins.

A shooter, where you chose your role and stick with it is something new, at least for me it would be. I am a PC master race shooter, those are the games I play, you name it and there's a pretty good chance I have played it. Maybe that's more or less why I'm so disappointed it's going to be the same old thing I've played for years and not something fresh.

And like CptRedeard said before, I can still just play one class if I want, and I will since that's the closest I will be able to get to how I envisioned the game. My first post I admitted it's not that I just want to play as one class, but that I wanted everyone to play one class, it's selfish I know, I'm not trying to say otherwise. I rather liked the idea of say... I'm fighting and I see Djemo over there, now I know he is a sorcerer so I'll have to do this, this and this to deal with him.

Djemo has, for lack of a better word, a reputation, he is known on Arkhona as a sorcerer, his character has a designated roll amongst his faction and he will play accordingly, keeping to situations where he is most useful, can support his team most effectively. He will do everything he can not to fall into situations where he cannot counter what's in front of him, if he gets caught a midst a tank convoy then he has made a grave mistake and should suffer for that mistake.

On the other side of the coin, I cannot go "Hey, there is Djemo" let me redeploy as an Assault and smash him into the ground since he might kill me as a Tactical. I don't have to find other targets or ojectives, something my class is better suited for or communicate with an Assault in my squad and inform him that he is a threat and work together to deal with him, I can instead choose a different class and deal with him, personally.

I'll wrap this up for now because it is VERY clear I am rambling, I think I explained or at least tried to explain myself to the points you guys brought up for now. Again, CptRedbeard no hard feelings and sorry I killed you with a tank convoy Djemo.