I think it's more of the case of having some other activity to replace the banner raise to capture a base, maybe one that is particular to each base type instead (including a method of "uncapping") rather than a generic banner raise, the banners that are put out can go up automatically.
So the players handle the technical aspects of conquest only, the symbolic aspect (banners, Aquilas, Chaos Stars, etc.) is just an automated thing? What would you have as the main objective in capturing a base, as in, what final act is required to flip the base to your faction? The flag is a decent idea, and as far as I am concerned, far from generic anymore; just about every multiplayer game I have played involves the now standard "hold the point" not "plant the flag and wait for it to rise by kneeling to it." It's something new, less traditional, and very 40k. But as I said, what would you have instead?
If you mean things before capping the flag. Than yeah, of course there are side objectives, but as I have said, this thread is about capping the flag gloriously and not just stand around like mindless idiots.
The main objective to capturing a base? That's capturing the base, my thoughts are that each base should be different depending on what the base does, sure a main base type where you have to disable all of the defences, and run a take and hold, make it a flag plant. But there should be bases that only as spawn points, so hacking the computer to convert the spawn point, what if it's an ammo dump? Capture the base, destroy the ammo supply and reprogram the foundry so that the servitors start producing for your faction, a machine pit? Capture and reroute the fuel supplies, destroy the enemy's resource harvesters and replace them with your own. There's plenty of options to think about. I think my main thought is that taking down the enemy's flag and replacing it with your own signifies victory, it doesn't give you victory, there is no magic "flip the base" because you put your flag up, flipping the base is what you've already done by physically taking it from the enemy. I'm not talking about standing around either but my thought is that a banner has a morale effect on your own and your enemy's troops, it has no physical effect on the base so uncapping and capping the base should be represented by an action that in someway actually removes your enemy's control and replaces with your own, a banner doesn't do that a banner simply states that you've already taken it.
But games, for games sake, DO have a magic "flip" button. So unless you're saying a base is conquered when, using your example, the spawn computer is hacked, there is usually a "magic flip button" after the side processes. And if hacking a spawn computer involves standing in the general area as a final mechanic (which, with a large enough force, will result in a spawn camp) EC has conformed to generic and blend gaming conventions, and not tried something fresh. A simple act of destruction doesn't signify a conquest, but merely dominance. We could equate this to a raid to destroy enemy infrastructure, to cripple front line defences. A final act of conquest should be required when capturing a base; be it two hold ground nodes to control while the capture bar goes up, or planting a flag on the battlements. Both are acts of conquest; one is more "control area" to capture, one is "symbolise enemy defeat, and claim ownership symbolically" to capture. But if you'd rather have plain technical driven mechanics decide a bases outcome, that's fair enough. As long as it doesn't promote spawn camping. I'd prefer destruction as a precursor to conquest, but that's my opinion; if you want the two to blend, it's fine by me, I just prefer something else.
As Berserk said, games do it for games sake. Also, of course you havent really fully captured the base, there will be enemies still fighting for control or last standing and trying to kill as many of you as possible. (Like in our threads about bases and spawning) But as for capturing a base, yes.
I actually think the idea of having to physically remove a banner, then plant your own, then be a target that isn't moving or shooting back is uninteresting and not fun. But the idea of planting a flag after the battle is won/proper requirements are met (disabling all spawns/ all spawn tickets run out/enemy presence drops below a certain threshold) to finalize the base flip timer could be good. If it's just symbolic I see it as a Roleplay thing so I personally won't care about doing that but I may be a heavily armed friendly neighborhood meatshield to allow someone else to do it. Or I just go get a drink after the fight seems done only to return looking at a respawn screen and enemy banner raised. My mood at that would be most foul indeed. I may even angrily sip my juice! Oh dear, I hope to never get that out of control. I also like needing multiple varied objectives brought up by others. They could have a limit to number of players that can influence the cap point area. If only 10 players are needed then any extras aren't being productive and should go set up perimeter buffer zone to protect the objective cappers. The base sizes as told by Steven the Magnificent in a livestream (Episode #1 @ 27:15) include Outposts (small checkpoint bases like we've seen in gameplay demonstrations), Depots (which give Supply and have an effective on static turrets), Fortresses (big base) and Strongholds (a base bigger than the big base). These different sizes offer potential for variety of capture scenarios and maybe they're even linked in some way. I also found these from a search on "Capture" and StevenLumpkin. The World Itself thread page 3 post #23. (there's more said but just highlighting here) "Persistence in war: A few key differences that we want to highlight. I'll compare directly with PS2, since you bring it up. We're hoping for our "facilities" to take significantly longer to capture and recapture. We intend for our "facilities" to be much more important for you to hold. Campaigns last some amount of time, and your faction's accomplishments in the campaign will last for even longer- doing well in one campaign could give you an advantage for multiple subsequent campaigns." The World Itself thread page 4 post #33. (There's a lot more but again just highlighting) "Do you have any ideas on zerging and if you are concerned about it?" A: Yeah, we've looked at zergs and the way they behave, and strategies to counter them. Thing is, we want clusters of players up to a certain size, so we can't make any hard blockers to players grouping near each other. This might have to come more at the strategic level: Once you have ~125 players in a given fight, if you have 20-30 more, it should make more sense for them to go fight over another objective (except in rare circumstances). I think we're gonna try some pretty varied solutions to disperse zergs.
Understood, but like I said the "flip" itself should be a secondary effect, to hacking the computer to turn the servitors to your side and shut down the automated heavy bolters as the flip mechanic would involve keeping the servitors (that are constantly respawning and harassing your team) at bay and preventing them from running auto repairs on the heavybolters that are strafing your team. Once you have the computer under control then you've flipped the base as the bolters attack any faction other than you and the servitors then serve you, you can then hang what ever banner you like to signify the change. A poor excuse and no reason to do it. Something that will happen even after a base is flipped regardless of what ever the flip mechanic is.
