It is worth noting that while the muuuuch slower power attack charge up on the klaw does make the klaw much less potent than the fist, the klaw does actually have a significantly longer lunge distance on its attacks, particularly its power attack, which while not enough to balance the two weapons out can lead to some amusing kills when people think they are at a safe distance and you send them into orbit.
they did some statistics on JPA's a while back and it showed that JPA's died so much more than other classes too that their KDA wasn't significantly different .... its that they have the speed to be in battle more and the game doesn't report deaths on the board .... so a JPA with 30 kills might have 25 deaths and you'de never know .... My favorite class is JPA, not because they are op i played them even when they were nigh unplayable and their melee attacks passed through people harmlessly or eldar could sprint for melee immunity or duck and be immune to the power fist because the hitzone didn't go that low ..... i play tactical for my guild and i can tell you all around players that go 8-10 kills and have 1-2 deaths impact a win a LOT more than a lone wolfing JPA who goes 20 kills and 15-30 deaths. We still use JPA's a lot when defending harkus to hunt out in the ruins .... but honestly most guilds/clans are sporting a lot of heavy weapons and tac units because they work better when organized. heres a video showing the roll past technique i discussed earlier http://plays.tv/video/580133ed0240f2b140/jpa-jumps-me-and-should-have-had-me-?from=user The next time a JPA gets you ask yourself a few questions :: was i alone ? if so why was i alone ?(there isnt a good answer here unless you are a SS,SH,JPA, or tac variant using a DMR.) if i wasnt alone did i Q ping the attack and was i near SQUAD MATES ? if i did all that aka i wasnt alone i q pinged i was near squad mates, did my squad mates just stay scoped in and ignore the situation ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i can tell you from both sides of the experience that a jpa jumping into just a 2-3 man squad that q pings or uses vent/ts/discord etc. is getting ventilated on the second clash/dbash by all the emperors fury, or hes getting tac knife fierce backstabbed which does more damage than a powersword. If you get stuck in melee COMMIT to melee SWITCH to your melee set and i mean ALL of you around the melee Heres a clip of me obliterating someone with a tac in melee because they kept trying to ranged fight me. http://plays.tv/video/580131a665266b3127/first-fight-in-the-loadout-?from=user ... use your smart pistol to poke into the engagement as you circle for a clear flank attack or backstab. If your opponent is using anything but a power maul its actually better to deliver a backstab even if it means you get backstabbed by something else the knife backstab particularly on the thrice blessed or damage upgraded knife is ridiculous for damage, and other factions even have special knifes like the plague knife, and that knife on SH and DA everyone complains about, almost all the lower tier Ork weapons are way better for their LP cost than many people think. Generally you have 1 of 2 circumstances that lead to a lone JPA clearing a balcony solo :: 1. Everyone panics and kites away from the melee ..... this might seem like a good idea since you are generating distance but it is in fact a terrible idea as you are further isolating your friend and setting the JPA up for multiple 1 v 1 engagements something he excels at and bullets don't interrupt melee attacks if you happen to quick the enemy even with the piddliest knife in the game or a devastator leg hump it can STILL CANCEL A HEAVY ATTACK saving your friend, or spread the clangs out over 2-3 players so the attackers durability becomes an issue more. http://plays.tv/video/5801353fdb3cc1d613/backstab-2?from=user 2. everyone starts panicing and shooting everywhere ... i get it you picked your class because of its cool ranged weapon im sure its your favorite weapon why wouldnt you pick your favorite weapon right ? problem is also a lot of ranged weapons can cause collateral damage to your friends, plasma and high rof weapons with spread come to mind. the smart pistol might seem weak and it is but it has one thing going for it ... precision ... the autolock on it means you can be a lot more assured you aren't going to hit your friend as long as you can ease off the trigger if he passes in front of you.
Bug or intended feature? This allows you to go back to shooting with your main weapon faster than switching back to it from your sidearm. The trade off is you don't get aimbot. I find it helpful if you're paying attention
The power attack lunge is longer on the Klaw and as you've said the charge up is waaaaaay slower. The quick attack and sprint attack lunge distances are way shorter. The quick attack is also slower than the fists because there is a recovery animation between each. In addition, this is all redundant when we consider the OP which is specifically discussing PF on JPA loadouts. The FistJPA has a ridiculous lunge distance after attacking while landing. The Stormboy does not have anywhere near the lunge distance on a landing attack and hence one reason we see less of them. It does not help that marines (of all flavours) and JPAs/Raptors in particular have a ridiculous amount of iframes on their dodges. In other words they can counter the slow attack speed of the fist and stay relatively safe using their iframe exploits. This is a big part of the problem that I've not seen mentioned much.
Been complaining about this myself for a long time. I want Eternal Crusade to be good but it like many other Warhammer games fails miserably. The devs who try and cut corners by getting free popularity for including Games Workshop in the title usually have no idea what game balance is. Power Fist used to be utter crap but they swung the pendulum so far the other direction that its completely broken in the opposite way now. This team cannot do balance because they have no idea what it is and can't even understand why nobody wants to play their game. Aside from horrible optimizations, clunkiness, camera angle, and bugs, its poorly balanced as a "shooter" game. I say shooter in quotes because its more melee than anything and they want melee to win over ranged easily which shouldn't be the case. Melee should just be an option and another way to kill not to overpower ranged so severely that there's nothing they can do (think Devastators). As soon as you have a shooter game where there's a class that literally cannot defend itself in a given situation, you've lost the concept of a good game. Nobody is going to play it. Players do not like it when the game is out of their control. Fighting powerfists on JPA's is one of those issues too. No matter how much you use your resources at your disposal to fight a JPA with power fist, there's a crazy good chance you are going to lose (~95%). Its not the better player wins because we have a RPS luck draw melee system and horrible latency on the servers. So again, nobody is going to play a game like this where the mechanics are so far removed from the player's ability to control what is happening in a fight. Give players control over their movement and combat. Stop making the game so god damn clunky for every movement and overhaul melee so both ranged and melee are viable/balanced options that can defend themselves. I don't give a flying fuck what the lore says or how tabletop plays. This isn't tabletop. This is a game in dire need of balance so that it can appeal to a wider audience. There's at least 20k+ players who own this game and are waiting for it to get good. A year later we've still seen nothing. Fix melee already and stop avoiding the issue.
Whelp boys and girls, the cancer is now in full swing. I decided to take a sight seeing adventure today to see if I could get a better idea of who is playing what. I paid attention to classes/weapons being used by the opposing side, and made a little list here on my desk. Now, these aren't concrete numbers, but I put them together over about 23 games. I decided to play most of my games as eldar, but I played 5 of them as orks. So here are my notes. Orks: They Primarily had Shootas and Lootas, was some slugga boyz running around and some JPA's. They need to field more painboyz imo, but the way painboyz work you don't need too many so they did fine. Fun games against the Orks. Eldar: I didn't get a ton of games against them but I got 2, they are all over the place, I find them annoying to play against and a blast to play with, they are balanced imo aside from roadkill cheese. Chaos: Uhh, Half their teams were JPA's, half those JPA's were using powerfists. The rest was Autocannon Havoks and Sorcerers, maybe 3-4 Traitors and I don't think I saw a single Ground Assault. They don't get shields so yea they suck doorknob. Loyalists: In short I don't know if I caused this, and if I did I take full responsibility. But ever since I made the thread, the amount of them has doubled. I saw a team that was 3/4ths JPA's, It was insane, I should have honestly been taking screenshots but I was too dumbfounded and annoyed to bother so take this as you will. It's bad, real bad right now. It isn't even about powerfists anymore tbh, it's just JPA's at this point. Too mobile, too strong, too easy to get kills with. They overshadow Ground Assaults to the point where Ground Assault is useless, shield doesn't save it in the least. It got so bad that I started seeing chat rage, people saying the game sucks and leaving. They were like 10 minutes into the game and leaving it was so terrible. Shoot a JPA a lot and he just jumps away, get into melee with one and d-bash him he instantly dodge swoops out of the stun and around behind you and smacks you to death. They are too mobile boyz, far too mobile and safe. Time to fix them, tone them down, cut their jump fuel recharge in half or something. If they jump in, they shouldn't be able to get back out so easily. Anyways that's that, I plan to do it again tomorrow and I'll make it a point to take screenshots. I know you all pretty much understand the JPA issue right now, they are practically a Locust swarm at this point.
Correct. Incorrect. The Klaw has a longer lunge distance on its quick attacks and approximately the same lunge distance on its sprint attacks. Incorrect. The Klaw quick attacks at almost the exact same speed as the Power Fist, including recovery animations. See this video: It is also worth taking note that the Power Klaw allows the wielder to move at full speed whilst charging their power attack, whilst the Power Fist slows the wielder down considerably. Firstly, as the Jump Pack Assault and the Stormboy both still use the ground based attacks mentioning them is not redundant. Secondly, this is incorrect. The Stormboy has a longer lunge distance on his swooping attack with a Power Klaw than the Jump Pack Assault does with a Power Fist. See this video: I absolutely believe that iFrames are one of the core issues that sets the JPA apart from other classes, they are the primary issue with JPAs, not the Power Fist.
You can always tell when something is overpowered when the vast majority use it. That's the easiest way to tell and it doesn't matter what game or what it is. If something is strong, or too strong, it will be used en mass. JPA's are currently the absolute strongest thing in the game, they overshadow ground assaults entirely and are a living hell for every other class to deal with. For both Marine factions teams are made up of near half JPA's at any given time, only time they aren't is when that team is on defense on fortress, but then about a quarter are JPA's. If someone sits here and tells me this is fine, they are insane.
Right I was unclear here (though I dispute the Klaw has a longer distance since you nudge forward at the start of using it in your video). I'm not just talking about "where you end up after attacking" - I'm talking about effective damage range on the Fist vs Klaw. Due to the stupid jump bE felt the need to add to the Ork melee animations, if you look we don't actually swing the weapon until we land which is right at the end of the animation. I believe this is when (and only when) the damage is applied. On the Fist I believe the damage is applied across the duration of the swing (which is the entirety of the animation). So throughout the Fist quick attack lunge damage is longer by virtue of their extended animation. The Klaw fires only at the end and is thus shorter. Here's a diagram of what I mean (d = damaging part of animation, n is the part of the animation that I believe deals no damage) Fist; ddddddd Klaw; nnnddd nnn = jump ddd = swing at end of jump In your video it takes approximately 6 seconds for the PF to finish it's quick attacks, it takes the Ork about 7 seconds (8 seconds - 15 seconds). Close enough I suppose, but marine looks slightly quicker. Again I believe the actual damaging part of the animation is far shorter on the Klaw than the Fist. It's walking speed without sprinting for the Klaw, I think it's the same for the Marine but because you start charging so soon it is impossible to tell from your video. Again we have the stupid jumps which completely and utterly bork the attack. You can see it clearly in your video; the Stormboy "lands", does a little tap dance for a split second, then starts another animation where he lunges and attacks. It is far too slow and no damage is dealt during the tap dance. The actual lunge distance looks the same if not smaller for the Klaw. The difference is the Klaw does the little tap dance (moving forward but not attacking) while the JPA smoothly transitions into the animation and "slides" across the ground attacking at the same time. Unfortunately the tap dance again breaks the animation where I believe damage is applied and hence the effective damaging range of the Klaw's individual attacks is reduced. 100%. With regards why we don't see many Klaw Storm boys, I believe the borked Klaw animations are to blame; they reduce the actual damage that the Klaw deals in a given battle and unless near perfect hits are achieved there is too much non-damaging part of animation that really hinders it's capability. Useful videos these by the way, cheers. I believe I saw you in game actually when you went Ork. What's your handle if you don't mind me asking?
