Yeah, if they slowed it down to Ork levels, I can't wait to hear the massive flood of tears that will flow out of the marine forums. Imagine....Marine Power Fist heavy attack being so slow you can dbash it.... Truth be told though, I would have preferred them to acknowledge the Dbash Dodge Cheating
Which I've yet to see replicated in a controlled environment. Everything I've seen involving dodge cancels has latency as the primary cause, not a cancel mechanic. I'm thrilled PF is nerfed. Now no one will use it, which means I can use it, and surprise people with it. Joys! Also axe was attacking too slow they said, so that might become the new meta. Shame, because I really enjoyed being the only guy with an axe.
I have seen Klaw using Orkz do well quite a bit. The Powerfist was overperforming, nobody can deny that. It swung far too fast. The reason people said the Ork Klaw sucked was because it did suck, compared to the Powerfist.
It wasn't 4x's slower than the powerfist, it was like a 0.5-1 second slower than the powerfist, which yes is an eternity in melee but not slow enough that you can't get kills with it. You can't just run in spamming like a madman with the Klaw and get kills, it takes skill. Powerfist you could just swing for days, ignore d-bash with dodging and break peoples weapons until the cows come home, it was stupid. That whole 4x's thing is an exaggeration.
It aint, heavy attack is about twice as slow, the fast attack is almost the same but has longer lunge.
I did quick math based on a video in another thread. Ork Klaw is 40% slower with fast attacks, and 60% slower with heavy attacks. The heavy attack takes a full 5 seconds to complete and is so slow you can actually dbash stun the heavy attack before it completes. So the Ork Klaw literally can only fast attack. Basically the Ork has 50% less DPS than the current Power Fist based on speed since all stat are identical. The Heavy does have a long lunge, but it's too slow to catch anyone and hit anything moving. and since orks can't Dbash Dodge Cheat(see below) even simply fast attack spamming is out of the question. So in short, can't fast attack cause you'll get parry/stunned, can't heavy attack cause you'll get parry/stunned. You're only chance with the klaw is to hit someone fighting someone else or ambush. If they are trying to fight you specifically, it's almost impossible to win no matter how good you are because the correct moves actually just cause you to lose faster. Its not an animation cancel strictly speaking, it's a window of time after a clang from a Dbash but before the Dbash stun comes out that allows you to roll away or do another action. Most people dodge roll and get a free attack in while the stun whiffs. But I've seen more dangerous forms of the cheat where they go into a Heavy attack which absorbs the Dbash and hits anyway, and even a bug where a new fast attack interrupts(red!!! and all) the dbash entirely like it got countered. The only controlled environment you can test in is against other orks and Orks CANNOT do the Dbash Dodge cheat because of how much worse their melee is. Basically the difference is when you actually do damage with your attacks. For Orks, we only do damage in the very last portion of our melee animations after landing from our wierd ass bunny hop animations. So basically lets say the last 1/3(estimate) of our animation is the part that will actually hurt if you're in the way. Consequently that's also when you would clang off a person doing a DBash attempt. The later your clang off the dbash, the smaller window your character has to recover before the dbash stun comes out. Because orks animations hit so late, we don't, or extremely rarely get a window large enough to properly perform the cheat and get out of the stun. Martines and Eldar on the other hand: Their animations are damage capable for about 2/3. Having double the damage window means your attacks hit earlier and longer. This means an earlier clang against a Dbashing enemy. Because you clang so early, you are given ample time and opportunity to roll away from the stun, completely negating intent of the Dbash entirely. S = Safe D = Damage Ork Damage time: SSSSSSDDD Marine/Eldar Damage Time: SSSDDDDDD the 1/3, 2/3 are just estimated for illustration, I don't know the exact timings but the theory is good, and lag independent. Long Story short, the earlier you clang, the easier you Dodge roll out of the stun. Since marines and eldar clang early and orks clang late, Orks' Dbash is exploitable while simultaneously not being able to perform the exploit themselves. This is also why it feels inconsistent sometimes. If you're psychic or someone is super predictable, you can lead the Dbash to attempt to get the stun in faster after the clang, which obviously shortens the window, sometimes to the degree they cannot escape in time from. But they have to clang almost as the stun is coming out for that to work. On a personal note, I run the game with about ~100 ping and I've played both marines and orks in the same game session, and I can say with 100% certainty, I could very easily Dbash Dodge cheat as a marine, and it's nigh impossible as an Ork. Considering my lag was the same for both games, I can honestly say I've confirmed this to be lag independent and based solely on the faction you're playing as.
This. A thousand times this. Orks got shafted when our animations were redone because apparently no one could tell what we were going to do in melee. This is when the stupid bunny hop came in that meant all of the damaging part of the animation in melee was reduced to the end of a much longer animation. This is true across all Ork melee weapons and animations and is a large part of the reason Ork melee is dying. I would honestly recommend they return to the old animations except perhaps for the Dbash. The dbash dodge cheat is definitely a thing and it is something the other races are better able to do. The breakdown here is fantastic. The only way to win with the Klaw is to be sneaky or to flat outplay your opponent. Unfortunately since your opponent is likely a Jpa and they can ignore Dbashes 75% of the time, even that isn't always enough.
Put up a video of it then, because I've yet to see anyone actually put up a video performing it. I've seen videos of people saying it's been used against them, but they universally looked like latency* rather than a cancel. *Latency, because some of the problems seem rooted in the server and it's ability to handle.
