Multiple points here to discuss why guard COULD one day be included as a playable faction (so not at launch obviously). It's not really breaking lore if a guardsman kills a marine by shooting him in the back of the head with his trusty lasgun. 1v1 a marine should win a straight up fight, ranged or melee, against just about everything. But how often in any multiplayer fps game is it a fair fight? How often do both you and an enemy suddenly stumble apon each other at the same time with noone else around to help and no cover to hide behind? It's almost never a fair fight, someone often shoots you in the back or from an angle you don't see. A single guardsman COULD kill a marine, they just have to be smart about it and not just charge madly ahead without cover (thats the orks job, they can take a bolter hit and just walk it off). It's not lore breaking for a guard regiment to consist of veterans or better. They are a troops choice and it's actually a good way to play guard in the TT game. Page 40 in the IG codex: "As time passes, each company will skrink in size as casualties take their toll. Those that survive are the hardiest troopers in the imperial guard. Their battlefield training has been honed in the fires of war, forging them into warriors who have learnt how to fight and kill with lethal efficiency. Veterans are the hard core of the imperial guard, the first squad in an assault and the last in a retreat." That, as well as pretty much the whole next paragraph, describes how tough, skilled, and lucky an IG veteran is. I'd say that when an imperial guardsman is lucky enough to survive where hundreds more have died, that they are lucky enough to get that head shot on the marine. Hell, my gaming friends are scared of my veteran squads because of the amount of damage they can throw out. BS4 guys with 3 plasma guns, 1 plasma pistol, 1 democharge, 1 heavy weapon, a couple of lasguns and a few bayonets can really damage even a terminator squad (assuming they dont have storm shields and if they do when why waste your veterans on them anyway). My friends aren't big fans of my stormtrooper squads when I use them either, their hot-shot lasguns don't care that you're in power armour. And stormtroopers being stormtroopers are not the kind of guys you have on your front lines, they are the guard version of SWAT teams. They rock up quickly, they kill shit, they move on and only teabag you once instead of 3 times. Thats how a good guardsmen should play this game if they want to kill tougher stuff than themselves (i.e. everything except the elder). And honestly if people complain about playing as a marine and getting killed by a guardsman they they need to have a think to themselves. How many guard have they killed since they spawned? 3? 4? and now they are taken down by the 5th guardsman they encounter and they want to complain about a 4:1 ratio. Maybe the guardsman was really good, maybe the marine player was shit/had lag (typical excuse). Whatever the reason, they just killed you, marines ARE NOT invincible (despite what some people seem to think), get over it, respawn and chainsword his arse. Even in the novels, marines can still be killed by a guardsmen or cultist. Books that glorify the marines yet still say they can be killed by the common human with a gun. People have said that the IG shouldn't be included because they are squishy. What about the elder? Their armour and toughness is the same as the guard yet I've not read anyone saying they shouldn't be included. The elder have a bit of speed over a guardsmen but the guard bring variety to the table with their weapon options. That bit of speed equates to what exactly? Movement speed? whoopdeedoo, lead your target. Reflexes? Increase your mouse sensitivity. Shuriken catapults hit hard and can rend but are short range compared to a lasgun. Why does it fit for one but not the other? Reason marines are fighting guardsmen: orders to exterminate them from an inquisitor who believes their exposure to both the xenos and heretics is reason enough to kill them. Reason guardsmen are fighting marines: they are trying to kill you, what kind of person just stands their and takes it? Remember charlie, they killed him, do it for charlie! And they dont always have to be fighting, I believe I read something about there being the potential for alliances between factions. I don't recall if there will be a requirement that must be met for the alliance to be possible but if it's a monetary thing then maybe have that requirement lowered because they would normally be allies but just aren't in this case. Mates-rates is about the best I can explain it as. It would be very unbalanced against the IG when you compare it to marines but I doubt I'm the only person here who wouldn't care if that was the case. If you don't want newer people playing as guard because you are afraid they will die right away and quit, then just add a warning label when you pick factions that the guard are at a disadvantage and it's not recommended for new players. Sorry about the essay you may have just read but one day I really do wish to be able to play as a guardsman in this game. Wouldn't even care that it would probably be unbalanced against me.
Well the main issue is that you are taking TT rules and applying them to the MMO. I agree that it would be nice to get all the TT factions into the game but for the IG it's an uphill battle. The thought of them all starting out as veterans begs the question of where they are all coming from. It would take an extremely important event to cause the IG to pull every veteran soldier they have off the lines and out them into a single place. If i was in a PvP situation where I died in a 4:1 ratio and it was normal then I think I would simply stop playing that race. There is a difference in battling against skill and just being nerfed to hell. Now if in the PvP arena there was some type of specialized class like the Kazrkin I could see them standing against the other races a little better. Not to mention in PvP it would make sense because IG work as a unit so it's nothing to see a group of them battling against the enemy. While I do agree that the Eldar are pretty squishy they do have more tricks than your average guardsman. For one the Armor that the Eldar wears would offer more protection and allow their speed to play a role in battle. I am looking at this with a mixed view from game and TT. The Eldar uses a lot of other means to kill other than simply charging the IG and shooting him in the face. I still stand by the idea that a squad of IG would be butchered by a squad of Aspect Warriors. Anyway, good read. I understand a lot of your points and do see how they might be able to get the Guard in the game at some point but I do feel that it will be a long battle. I hope that for your sake and all others who are looking to play the Guard that they work it out.
*takes a deep breath* This topic has already been discussed to death in this very forum. http://forum.eternalcrusade.com/threads/imperial-guard-faction.2234/ Please guys take the time to look through the threads before starting one that is identical.
You don't think IPs being sold out for a quick buck is a bad thing? You haven't seen the effects of this over and over in the last 5-6 years? Yes I'm very willing to cut a casual profit to make a good Warhammer 40k game, My favourite faction isn't even in the game and they probably won't be and you don't see me crying about it. Simply put Guardsmen do not measure up to other races at all, that's the entire point of the Guard they are a meat shield that requires attrition warfare to accomplish anything. If they face equal numbers of Marines, Orks, Chaos or Necrons they just get utterly slaughtered and no that's not bolter porn it's even a part of the Guard Novels. Don't see why me wanting a decent 40k game would change your opinion of me as a person but hey guess I can't help that.
It's less Space Marine fan wank and more every lore reference ever. You do know the Uplifting Primer is a joke right? The same book says that your average Ork is weaker than a Guardsman physically. Also 5+ armor save doesn't translate into every single lore reference again. You would need to have 4 full regiments of Veterans with Plasma Guns and Meltas to even be a threat to most marines. The problem is the Imperial Guard are NOT properly equipped to deal with Space Marines even the Veterans don't stand much of a chance. Edit : Another bit on Carapace Armor Taken directly from the Codex.
As interested as I am in seeing the IG in this game, I have to say I'm somewhat tired of seeing the exact same back and forth across multiple threads. It is entirely feasible for the IG to be included in the game, it won't be easy and they'll likely be one of, if not the hardest faction to play. That's not necessarily a reason to ignore them as a playable faction. If they're going to be implemented, it would need to be much further down the line, they should be one of the latest factions to be implemented. At no point should they, the SoB or any other Imperial faction be officially allied, the SM are already over-populated, there's no point making this an MMO if you're going to give one faction ridiculous advantages. Sure, the War Councils can decide to create alliances, it might even be that this is the de facto state of affairs, but it shouldn't be the default. The Imperium is a huge, slow moving behemoth that has no room for independent thought from the vast majority of it's citizens. The Departmento Munitorum gives several IG regiments an order to invade/reinforce/defend this system, that's what they do. Doesn't matter if they're going to be fighting against other Imperial factions, they've got their orders and they really do have to follow them. IG should die quickly if they try to stand in firing lines or charge at any of the other factions, there are ways to mitigate being torn apart after hit or shot a couple of times, they'll need to be more careful, thoughtful and tactical in their assaults and defences. It is entirely possible for Flak armour wearing IG to survive several - not many, but still more than one - shots from a bolter. The IG rely on superior numbers and firepower - in the form of artillery, tanks and air superiority - that could mean smaller respawn timers, lower Requisition costs for vehicles and artillery strikes amongst other things. They can kill SM/CSM/Orks/Eldar as well, it's harder for them than the other factions, and is even harder in melee, but still possible without having to make the IG ridiculous super-soldiers that wouldn't be in keeping with the lore. So yeah, tldr; IG can be a realistic playable faction in the game and don't implement them until much later. PS. Rasczak and Tornadium, great to see you in another IG Faction thread...
So you want to play as 6 Marines then? 30 Ork Boys? 7-8 Nobz? 7-8 Aspect Warriors? Well.. that would make the Game certainly big.. very big!
No, It's not. The Codex and Lore states Flak armor is fucking USELESS. TT is the only place where it CAN stop a Bolter.
