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Discussion in 'Chaos Space Marines' started by Slayer88, May 17, 2017.

  1. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Oh you're actually totally correct the power sword alt is in the 3k boxes...
    its been awhile since i looked at that list hehe.

    er though one.. 3k boxes are easily completed tbh. might just be worth not getting the 10k Psword and just grinding those 3k boxes out. ur gonna have to anyways.

    And Raptor vs Assault.. raptor pays a lot for its mobility .. he is really squishy mobility is awesome tho
    But the assault can also capture points has access to melta bomb
    and generally has a lot more Loadout points to spend on stuff because he doesn't need to spend 200 to 400 something LP on his jetpack instead he just gets more stats like armor stamina or health or better gear.

    Some examples:
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  2. Slayer88 Recruit

    Alright.

    Go home and get Premium.
    Remake a character with a fluffy name that I will enjoy roleplaying.
    Play Traitor Assault as long as I can before the itch to play a Raptor becomes too great.
    Save up for 3k boxes with the goal of acquiring 1 per match.

    I want the Manslayer. Idk if it's good... but I want it lol.
  3. Slayer88 Recruit

    Ah.

    Health is the red bar, Armor is the recharging blue bar, and Toughness is a form of damage reduction, yeah?

    So the Assault Marine has an easier time getting to where he needs to be, but the Traitor Assault is going to be better once he gets there. Traitor basically just gets extra LP because he doesn't have a jump pack or do the classes have different base stats? I guess I'll need to compare them as I go.

    Sounds like the Traitor Assault is a better fit for me and will be more like a Zerker anyway.
  4. Melee is not simple to git gud in. There's lot of factors to consider.

    -Latency.
    -Inconsistency and mistiming in the attacks.
    -Weapon durability based on which weapon you're using.
    -Weapon impact's effect on durability, i.e. how long you can go toe to toe against a Power Fist user with your knife.
    -Rock vs. Paper vs. Scissors. There's always a wrong move to make.
    -Dodge roll invincibility frames.
    -Some other dude walking up in the middle of your fight and shooting you in the head.
    -Learning the "meta" of how most players approach melee.
    -"Spacing", i.e. how far or close you keep your opponent from you, is important based on which attack you're using. dBash you want to be very close. Fast attack you want either close or a little far away. Strong attack it really depends on how bad your opponent is, where the optimal distance to attack from is.
    -Attacks to the back do extra damage. With sword/axe tier weapons, a strong attack to the back will do like 75% of most races' armor and health. A quick fast attack or two afterward will usually finish them off.

    The meta is fairly easy to understand once you've encountered it enough.
    -Most randos use the fast attack by reflex, multiple times. You can exploit this by making your second attack (if you came up on them unawares) a dBash. You can also make your first attack a dBash (if they saw you coming), because most players are just so eager to try and start doing damage.
    -Those that have learned a little more about melee will immediately try to dBash you in response to being attacked.
    -If you successfully dBash someone, you can usually get in two fast attacks before the stun wears off, or mmmaaayyybeee 1 charged strong attack.
    -Most melee pros use strong attacks when it's safe to do so because the damage is worth it. They also use it to overcome the dBash meta. If your opponent seems like they're in to strong attacks, switch to fast attacks and stay close to them, to exploit the way strong attacks are aimed and their wind up time.
    -Strong attacks can be hard to land because of dodge rolls, latency, and just the way the animation works. The delay means they're only safe to use at certain ranges. Too close and your opponent will do something before your attack goes off. Too far and you will obviously miss and/or give them plenty of time to shoot you. For the new player, Strong Attacks can get you killed because the times/places to use them is so specific.
    -Many players will drop a grenade at their feet if you engage them in melee combat. They do this so if they lose at least they take you with them, or get the kill if you're not paying attention and let that grenade blow up on you.

    So basically:
    -If you and your opponent are clanging weapons together more than once, it's time to change your strategy. Try a dBash. Roll backwards then dBash to catch him fast attack spamming to close the gap and not paying attention. Try using a strong attack (warning: if they are paying attention and expecting this, they have plenty of responses to a poorly chosen strong attack.) Just remember that about the time you're thinking "I should do something different", your opponent is too most likely.
    -Pay attention to melee animations and take your time. It is all too common when you start the game to just spam attacks into melee, ignoring pretty much everything else except you own animation and the dude in front of you. It's hard not to since most players do not give you room to think or plan, just react. But if you can think in the middle of a melee combat instead of just react, and mix up your attacks, you can win just about any match up.
    -The gap between fighting someone know doesn't understand melee and one who does is huge.
    -There is always a chance someone can turn the tables on you in a frontal 1v1 fight because of the RPS system.
    -Melee is most effective against opponents who don't know you're there. Exploit that advantage to the max with a full charged strong attack to the back.

    Other tips:
    -Strafing around your opponent while locked on is vastly underrated by many players. A well-timed circle strafe can completely change a fight. Again, most people rely on their melee attacks to move them in a 1v1 match, and that limits what they're capable of. Knowing when to use your melee to move, and when you should just actually move, can change a fight.
    -With charged strong attacks and dBashes, people that are locked on to you can turn as the animation plays. This allows players to do stuff like...start a dBash with their back to you and then turn around quickly as it comes out. You can't always trust what direction your opponent is currently looking as whether or not you're safe from their next attack.
    -dBash and then immediately left clicking to shoot your pistol/main weapon at their head is a sure fire way to, if not end most melee combats, tip the odds dramatically in your favor. The dBash has to actually land, of course, and they have not roll out of the stun.
    -The rock, paper, scissors rules are not hard and fast. You will see inconsistencies, things you can't explain, like players rolling out of being stunned by a dBash as soon as it hits them. Fast attacks overriding dBashes even though they shouldn't. Other shenanigans. Just understand that if you wanna git gud in melee, you're dealing with a semi-broken system that works up until the minute it doesn't.
  5. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

    Different base stats. Jump pack troops have less armor and don't have access to lvl 2 chest type armors and a lot of other wargear that the Traitor assault has access to. but being jump pack troopers raptors also have an air charge attack that assaults don't get which is pretty beast.
    Toughness is indeed damage reduction. gets countered by Penetration.
    So like if you have say 130 T and the opponent has a P sword that comes stock with 20 pen you will have 110 T against his attacks
    For some ez napkin math every 10 T above 100 is about 4.5%'ish damage reduction orso.
  6. Tior Elsworth Tior Steam Early Access

    Since you're gonna go melee as chaos, I guess bestbro tactics could do.

    • Plasma pistol is good for shaving off the armor before lunging in with the sprint+melee.
    • When using heavier weapons like axes/power axes, treat your fast attack as a shield during melee encounters with faster melee weapons (eg. chainswords & swords) since they will try to interrupt your deadly heavy attack. fastclang once -> dbash -> heavy->finish off.
    • Don't be afraid to finish off with your pistol.
    • If you're carrying a grenade you can use it to stagger your prey.
    • Flank, as much as I would love to bumrush - flanking wins games (unless you're purposely drawing enemy fire). Heavy attack Devastators from the rear.......that sounds wrong.....Slaanesh?
    • MON > MOK IMHO.
    Anyways....welcome traitor marine to the fields of Arkhona. I will personally plant my Iron Bane upon thine treacherous skull when I meet you in the field and claim it for Kh......the Emperor. The Emperor Protects.
  7. Catnium Catnium Well-Known Member

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  8. Slayer88 Recruit

    Thank you @Brother_Tiberius I found a lot of that out yesterday when I was playing, but having it explained is very useful.

    I experienced some odd things. I was getting stunned A LOT. I tried to spam lots of heavy attacks and found myself often coming up short and being shot to pieces. I did this because I kept getting stunned, but sometime I'd get stunned even while doing heavy attacks, so maybe they're just too late. I noticed I was able to detect which moves my enemies were doing but I'd often be too late to respond. I need to get better at seeing "tells," but is this game truly rock-paper-scissors where as soon as you see an enemy begin their animation it's too late for you to counter it? Or do you have a small window of opportunity to counter an enemy's move if you're quick and patient?

    I made it to Rank 3 and got lots of nice stuff. Mark of Khorne, bonus health, warp-touched armor, power sword mastery, and power axe mastery. I got LOTS of stuff from the 3k box for power axes and force swords but have yet to get a weapon. I'm really eager to get a Power Axe and try it out before using the swords. Are Power Axes good? Power Axes outtier knives, but I'm not 100% sure what that means. I know that a power sword does not outtier a knife, but a power sword is as fast as you can swing while also being close enough to Tier 1 weapons. I imagine that a Power Axe would be useful if I fight mostly knife enemies. I see very few melee guys, so I'm going to try to tailor my build towards killing ranged infantry.

    I had some questions develop yesterday and you sort of touched on them, but not quite. So, first, I experienced the dodge rolling i-frames. I really hate this and believe it should be removed from the game. I've experienced this before and have never been a fan. But, does it work against ranged attacks and well and how I can practice rolling to learn the i-frame times? I perfected it in Dark Souls and I'll do it here. Additionally, how do you counter someone who spams his i-frames? I had one guy dodge me 3 times in a row. Switching up attacks doesn't work unless you can switch to a fast attack. Maybe I could've just took a step and then attacked after I saw him begin rolling.

    Second, how do you counter the loyalist ground assault with his shield? So, first, how do I beat them myself? And second, should I even be the one countering them? I've tried everything and nothing seems to work. Does their shield block all attacks? I feel like the Dbash would work, but then I think they spam that ability because it's all that goes through their shield. Either way, when I see a shield guy running at my squad, what should my role be, as the Khorne Berserker. Right now, the best way I've found is to flank them with 2 people so someone is attacking from behind, or to circle him so my allies can shoot him in the back or I can attack him from behind. Is this it? Is there something I can do if I find one in a 1v1?

    Also, I'm a little annoyed with all of the non-GW weapons in this game. That shield is not a storm shield. It should be smaller and allow for shooting of the feet and shins. That shit is super cheesy.

    Third, smart pistols vs regular pistols confuse me. I know what they do in theory. Do both of them provide the red circle when I click the lock on/aim button? I have a pistol that is not called smart, it has 3-round burst, and I can't tell if it's auto-aiming or not. How do you know the difference between auto-aiming pistols and regular pistols? Do all pistols lock onto the enemy because I'm melee or what?

    Fourth, relating to pistols. When should they be used? I know in the tabletop they're used as you're entering combat but this didn't seem helpful. Sprinting into combat seemed more useful as using my pistol slows me down to a jog/walk and I can't compete with a bolter's dps. So I'd just die while trading fire. Sometimes I found an enemy popping out of a door with low health and I'd shoot him down. Sometime I'd get killed by a jump infantry who'd fly backwards and gun me down. Most of the time I felt like I was wasting my time shooting and have resolved to use my pistol much less. The only reliable time to use it, I've found, is when I'm defending an area with a group of guys and the enemies aren't engaging and if I go outside I'll die instantly. So, I'll sit there and shoot some people and get some assists. Should this be the only time I shoot? I've never tried shooting while in melee, does it do more damage or automatically target the head?

    Fifth, about dodging again. As an assaulter, should I be dodging? If a marine is shooting me down as I'm charging him should I dodge towards him? When I'm engaged in combat should I roll to the side? Or is it better to focus on the hack-slashing? Like, when I'm in combat, what else should I be doing other than trying to out RPS my enemy?
  9. Slayer88 Recruit

    Let me just say...

    Mark of Khorne is by far the best mark in this game, I love it. When a sorcerer tries to cast a spell on me there is a giant flaming skull rune that protects me and says "NOPE!"

    It's beautiful.
  10. Tior Elsworth Tior Steam Early Access

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