I do get what your trying to say,

the trick is attaining that asymetrical balance, which does unfortunately mean a bit of "give and take" to obtain any balance at all asymetrical or otherwise,

any classes utilised have to be at least within a certain parameter of the other factions classes, you might have one class that does something unique but most have to fall within that range, both power and skill wise,

no class list that rendered a player faction OP will ever see the light of day in EC, so its find a class list that can best fit the game or never see the faction as playable,

If we give them a "grouping" bonus similiar to the ork waaargh, but only against armor that would require Necron players to bunch up while tackling a vehicle that , lets be honest, is going to grin like an idiot when it sees a nice clustered target group,

if we give their weapons the real kick they pack in TT, then ever other faction crys foul and whines about OP necron guns,

If we give them reanimation, then necrons players have to linger on death to see if they get the roll to pop back up, and that would slow our respawn rate rather then being able to <press button to bleed faster> like the other factions and get back into the fight faster

You really need to get the new codex. You seem to be stuck on the old lore.

It is perfectly acceptable for the individualistic Necrons to be jumping around (well at least as acceptable as Space Marines jumping around). And that's not even considering that Praetorians are actual Jump Infantry.

Immortals are a basic troop choice and my list (that I posted in this and other threads) includes them as the equivalent of Tactical Space Marines. Warriors together with Canoptek robots might be included as NPCs defending the Necrons bases, just as Guardsmen or Servitors might guard Space Marine bases.

Also:
Something I find quite funny, is the misconception that Necrons have slower movement speed than other races, they actually don't. In the TT rules they have the same movement speed as other infantry. What they do have is slower reaction speed as represented by their low (2) initiative score.
The myth about slow moving Necrons must originate from DoW, where they were slow as hell. Just goes to show how little is known about the TT background.

Stop Stop Stop with this stupid pve talk personally yes the lower necrons are mindless drones but they as a race have so much to offer been able to play as a pvp race. Ill be more then happy to tell you why guardsmen should be pve race as well for all you necron haten gits.

I guess I never realized that all of you guys were suggesting that nearly all of the people who choose to be Necrons would be playing as elite units. I was hoping to come up with a more lore friendly solution than that. Maybe you could have lychguards and crypteks and things be relatively cheap hero characters so that we can still have masses of warriors. I don't think it would be a possibility to just have lots of ai warriors although I suppose it's not completely out of the question.

Well I guess if you didn't like the C'tan I can't blame you for thinking that way. But these are gods of creation. They are infinitely powerful. I just cannot for the life of me see how their race of slaves defeated them and use fragments of them as pocket monsters. Calling them all-powerful star gods is a joke at that point. Imagine if a large enough army of chaos marines did that to one of their gods. I know that it took the entire race of necrons to do so, and I know they were weak after the fight with the old ones, but that still isn't enough in my opinion to fragment all of the star gods.

If you really want to play it that way, I guess the C'tan are like tyranids. On that very base level, yes, we can compare the two. Why would we need to dwell on that when there are so many more differences between them? A lot of races in the 40k universe have generally the same motivation.

Now I didn't know that, but it's not there from what I can tell. It does say that the war gave the powers of the warp shape and form, but it mentions nothing about the chaos gods. GW must have put it out in some other piece of literature that I'm not familiar with.

It really didn't get returned to the original story. The C'tan are still in, just with more castration this time. Before the Necrons just turned themselves into metal to not die. Now they were deceived into doing it. The backstory is much more fleshed out, but that part stayed the same between the 3rd and the 5th edition codices.

Well you need a race of sentient beings to have a culture. A lot of them do get some free will back, but less so the further you go down the chain of command. By the time you get to elite warriors you barely have much to work with. They still adhere somewhat to a hierarchy, but this time its honor and not programming. This is why people complain about tomb kings in space. The Necrons had something unique. They were machines incapable of a lot of familiar emotions. It was a much more dark and alien way to portray a race. Again, it's your decision whether you like that or not. Maybe from the entire race there's a lot of sentient 'crons, but in on army there might only really be a handful that make any real decisions. Reconquering their kingdoms is fine, but they aren't really suited to do much else but fight.

Honestly I just interpreted that differently. I personally hold that that included lords. Again, it wasn't really too clear about that. It's not even like all the C'tan did was eat. The Deceiver's plots are proof of that.

If their goal was to give some Necrons some "personality" then they could've done a lot better. If they wanted to rid the lore of the C'tan, I guess you're correct.

Again, I was assuming that we were going to let warriors be playable. I also don't really care about the jumping thing; It had nothing to do with my point. Why do I keep getting railed for that? I understand that the elite guys are perfectly capable of moving fast. A lot of them are dedicated meelee troops and (as you mentioned) jump troops after all.

and right there is the nub mate,

the Devs have said they want to , if possible, have no combat AI on any faction (except base guards)...that the players will do the fighting not NPC's,

hence our dilemma,

we either have warriors acting very out of character even for newcrons, they should still be the walking tide of terminators we all know and love..and not a lot of fun to play,

or we skip past the warriors and use units that have more sentience as classes, thus allowing the actions taken by players to seem more "intune" with the lore as it stands

Exactly! That's what I've been getting at. If I may, I'd like to put my suggestion back in: What if we had to play warriors at first, and the elites with sentience would be hero characters which are relatively cheap in comparison to other races. To keep the warriors a marching wall of death, we could give them some bonuses for sticking together in a phalanx, sorta like they are doing with the orks.

how do you mean "play warriors first"?

after all any faction will need 4 classes and a character will swap between those classes as they like everytime they respawn

think PS or the BF series of games, its like that

I think keeping Warriors as base guards is perfectly fine.

Here is the Class list I made (and posted waaaay back in this thread - it sure is getting long ) that gives equivalent units to the Space Marine ones:


LSM / Necron

ASM / Praetorian
(Triarch Praetorians are the Necron close combat jump infantry unit)
TSM / Immortal
(Warriors are not really playable due to them not having any individuality)
DSM / Destroyer
(Destroyers (both heavy and normal) are the Necron long range support fire units)
Apo / Cryptek
(Crypteks can be "healers" and would also be great as a "summoner" type that controls combat pets - all the non-sentient Canoptek units (Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders))

TDA / Lychguard
(Lychguard are the close combat "tank" infantry of the Necron army and thus the equivalent of the heavily armored Terminators)

Bike / Tomb Blade
Rhino / Ghost Ark
Predator / Doomsday Ark/Annihilation Barge
Dreadnaught / Triarch Stalker
Land Raider / Monolith
Thunderhawk / Doom/Night Scythe


Since in the new 5th edition codex Immortals are a Troop choice, for the base classes we'll have a Troop class, an Elite, a Fast Attack and an HQ add-on. I think this is an acceptable spread, especially considering that the army list only has 2 Troop units to choose from. The only difference to the LSM list is that we have an Elite choice and they have a Heavy Support one.

personaly, i don't mind seeing player nekrons, but i prefer them as pve faction. (like how they handle Tyranids)
My main reasion is that: The necrodermis is OP itself, 65% of the nekron army are mindless warriors and after that comes with automations like scarabs and other stuff = you got a regular tomb world.
But we will see when they are got in.
About IG, they are good for pve too, i know lot of people like them, but the regular units are weaker than orks...