Those rules need to be updated no doubt. Patch 16 had almost every single one of those rules working, except we still had stun lock back then. That's apparent if you read through the whole rule set again. As far as not being able to interrupt, it makes sense if you think of momentum, ie why should a combat knife interrupt the Force and Power behind a Power Fist, Chain Axe, Wyrmfang Spear or Power Axe that are already in motion? If anything the knife in game should mitigate some damage, but a scott free "get out of being totally f@#$d" free card versus proper medium and heavy melee weapons via clanging? I'm not so sure about that. How long can a Bolt Pistol(Knife) hang versus a Plasma Gun(Power AXe) or Plasma Cannon(Power Fist) at range, 15 yards to about 50 yards? Chances are if you're holding the Bolt Pistol in that scenario, going toe to toe in ranged combat versus a Plasma Gun or PC, you're dead on the First AOE plas-blob or first Plasma Volley and soon after they pry that Bolt Pistol from your cold, dead hands. Sure, there's always a chance, but it's none the less slim to none. If that's okay, how is it okay that the knife can hang at all with heavier melee weapons(Power Axes, Chain Axe, Fist) in a clang fight? If anything versus Axes and Fists, the clang should be one clang and your knife is broken, the clang simply buying you time between rolls or the time to try a bash if your opponent is spamming fast attacks.
My problem is that if melee gets in to melee range with me after I pump a clip of Bolter rounds in his face, he is going to destroy me, basicly there is nothing I can do currently. The way it feels now is that I have no way to counter the melee guy, I'm not asking for a IWIN button against the melee guy, I just want to feel like if I get a Dbash off that I should be able to disengage and run away if I want to. Even with Eldars increased speed I can't run away fast enough to escape or disengage.
Well the pipe dream is Dbash defeating fast attacks, Strong Attack defeating Dbash(not Strong Attacks clanging, SA BEATING the bash and doing full damage), and Fast Attacks defeating Strong attacks(when you have a weighty enough melee weapon) and clanging working with proper Force rules being applied without requiring 4 to 8 clangs to break a weapon much lighter than yours.
I'm not calling for knives to beat better weapons on clangs. That would be a bit much, no? What I'm saying is: if a person is charging a heavy attack and I deal enough damage during the windup, why shouldn't they be forced to stop? The threshold is could differ based on the weapon tier, but as long as its difficult and not impossible, I feel it does give more power to the RPS system than the force/stability system.
What we are experiencing is as follows, and as always I have adapted to suit: Before patch: Defensive Bash was the Duct Tape of EC - it used to counter EVERYTHING, we became complacent and we either still expect it to counter everything or adapt. Quick Attack = Countered the instant Dbash is tapped Strong attack = Countered the instant Dbash is tapped Evade = Countered the instant Dbash is tapped (The above follows your target as you turn either locked or manually) After patch: Defensive Bash is no longer the 'fix-all-tool' that can be deployed instantly to fix any situation. It now only counters: Quick Attack = Countered once the Dbash animation completes so it can be evaded Strong Attack = No longer countered by Dbash, Strong attack cuts through it as it always meant to Evade = No longer countered by Dbash if we are fast enough we can evade out of Dbash as it was always meant to be (provided you spot the Dbash fast enough and evade out of its way) (The above follows your target as you turn AND MOVE either locked or manually) Dbash could be a little faster though, right now its a little too dangerous to use as our targets can notice it quickly and launch into a Strong Attack with ease.
Isn't that what fast attacks are supposed to do according to the rules? Interrupt strong attack wind up? I've been taking the "interrupt" rules in the Melee Combat rules set as "clanging". We surely need to know the definition of the "interrupt" in the rules. Is that "clanging" ie Knives cannot interrupt/clang vs tier 2 and tier 3 weapons? Or they can't interrupt a strong attack for Tier 2 and Tier 3 weapons? It is all a bit confusing. Regardless of the definition, heavier weapons, versus 1 tier lower, should break a weapon in 3 or 4 hits. Two tiers lower in 2 or 3 hits, 3 tiers lower(Fist or Thunderhammer vs knife) either no clang at all or a single clang then broken weapon, drained stamina, some sort of reward for breaking a weapon). There's really no downside that I can see if your weapon is broken, you just roll away, bash, roll again, your weapon is repaired by then. That's broken and needs to be fixed. Breaking your enemies weapon needs to be rewarded on the spot. Since we no long can stun, SOMETHING still needs to happen. Either your opponent should be not allowed to just roll away, they should also perhaps be snared and drained of stamina for a few seconds after their weapon breaks. This sillyness with the Bash clanging or basically tieing versus a strong attack must go. As much as I wasn't a fan of stunlock, by god Strong Attacks resoundly punished the Dbash ON THE SPOT back then. We need that same punishment back for Strong Attacks instead of Strong Attacks bouncing off of the bash, or the bash mitigating 100% of strong attack damage. Strong attacks should resoundingly defeat the bash and deal full damage. The player bashing should NOT be able to beat the person executing the strong attack to the next punch. I see this all the time. I throw a strong attack vs a bash, the bash is interrupted, but as my strong attack is finishing the animation, the person that was bashing is already starting another action, before I can take advantage of beating their Bash. That's totally BROKEN. The bash of course must work reliably against fast attack, and fast attacks must interrupt the wind up portion of a strong attack. Once the strong attack is on the downswing though, should a fast attack thats started AFTER the strong attack has fired, should that late starting fast attack interrupt a strong attack? I dont feel that it should. A successful bash should stagger the Fast Attack player on the receiving end a bit longer. A successful strong attack versus a bash, the loser that was bashing should take full damage and should also be staggered as if they've been successfully dbashed. I dont want stun lock, believe me, but that interrupt needs to last just a tad a bit longer to keep the "loser" from beating the "winner" of rock, paper, scissors to the next punch.
Clarification is needed. I've been taking it that you cannot stop a windup if it's more than two tiers higher than your current weapon.
the main reason melee is dominating ranged is because of the upgrades in armor. longer a melee can stay in a fight, less likely ranged will survive in the end
