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Most Mock-worthy Primarch?

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by Testy, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Let us all agree that guilliman was hard pressed into splitting the legion for even he bows before gw's will.
  2. ALECOS ALECOS Member

    well first and foremost, it only happend so games workshop could justify everyone having their own chapters and backgrounds. However lore wise, yes a chapter is a shadow of its former glory and it splits up command and can be ineffective, but thats because the role of the space marine has been changed.

    Space Marines are no longer front line ground pounders they are an elite scalpel, A strike force to hit the enemy hard where they are weak, vulnerable or where other forces straight up cant stand up to. So the 1000 man chapters adapted to this change, However when more than one chapter is needed like in the black crusades and armageddon you still see around a legion strength of marines sending forces anyway, so while they are not under one man to limit the possibility and damage of corruption. They can still fight like a small legion just as combined arms not one force. Which can be more effective or less effective depending on how well they are coordinated.

    Its unfair to say the splitting up in chapters made the imperium weaker as well. 12 Loyal legions spread out across the imperium while undoubtedly more powerful in a prolonged conflict are way less effective to cover the millions of worlds under imperial control. Keep in mind that lore-wise usually a thousand coming in to help PDF's is all that is needed. So having the space marines split up to cover where they are MOST needed makes sense to keep it together. So assuming their are 1,000,000 chapters with about 1 million marines in the imperium give or take having them focused in 12 zones around the galaxy is less efficient then sending them where they are needed and using the guard who can be just as effective and undoubtedly cheaper than space marines, it just makes sense.
    Nether likes this.
  3. But during the Great Crusades they had exploratory fleets and split up all the time, forcing them to stay split doesn't really aide their ability to be a more precise fighting force, it makes it so they can't call in more of their own support once they're already committed to a conflict that ends up more difficult than anticipated, and when they do gather for a big crusade a prolonged conflict threatens to wear their numbers down to nothing, and quickly. As a whole they may incur acceptable losses, but the individual chapters may be wiped out entirely.

    But I can agree that the real reason was marketing, so that fan made chapters can still feel legit.
  4. ALECOS ALECOS Member

    You are totally correct but regardless of the splitting up of the Space Marine chapters, keep in mind the imperium even with its vast resources is not nearly as advanced as it once was so the resources and capability to field the fleets and legions even if they wanted to probably isn't viable or even possible. That is not a issue caused by the splitting of chapters thats just the imperium on a whole with the Adeptus Mechanicus
  5. Achrdili Achrdili Prefectus

    farturabo?
  6. Thuldarn Gaan_Cathal Well-Known Member

    Cough-cough, The Dragon.


    On topic? Lorgar. The first Primarch to fall to Chaos. The one who went into the Horus Heresy eyes open with the goal of dragging the Imperium kicking and screaming into the arms of the Four. And he went and created the very religion that has kept the Imperium just about surviving in the face of the Black Crusades and their own habit of spawning demon-snack psykers with all the power/handling ratio of a mustang. That's a pretty spectacular fuckup.

    It's also an explanation that's more or less been around since before the Horus Heresy books butchered half of the Imperium's legendarium.
  7. Nether Nether Master

    While I agree with most of what your saying, in regards to the smaller chapters allied to equal the manpower of a Legion, the advantage would still be the Legion. A Legion doesn't need alliances that can break, change or have different priorities to fully function.
    A Legion as well will have a greater support base than the combined Chapters, and it would also have greater, grander ships that would not normally be supplied to a Chapter. The percent of stronger weapons/vehicles/gear would also probably be higher per person than in Chapters.

    It's not to say allied chapters wouldn't be effective, just the advantage would be with the Legion.
  8. Nether Nether Master

    The thing about Technology that I love with 40K is just because it's old doesn't mean anything as some of the best tech is stuff used by hero's and legends that are psychically imprinted with power.

    It comes across to me that the Imperiums mass production of the higher end stuff has been affected with the Chapter size limit which I suspect goes further by limiting power of any organization in the Imperium so no one has to much and limits the creation of the grand stuff. I don't have any proof of this, just how it feels now.

    Ahh the day of the Legion was great wasn't it? I could see the hybrid of having the 1st foundings that have proved themselves as Loyalists staying a Legions, but allowing the creation of 2nd foundings to be limited to 1000.
  9. ALECOS ALECOS Member

    I agree a legion under one commander is alot more powerful then a loose alliance of chapters. However if you see in my last post i also brought up how they need to be a quicker response force , and supporting legions while stronger cant hold such a vast expanse together not to mention the imperium probably cant support legions these days. But Chapters and Legions both have their weaknesses i do not think its fair to say one is absolutely inferior the role of the space marine has changed since the great crusade.

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