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Most Mock-worthy Primarch?

Discussion in 'Space Marines' started by Testy, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. That's really not that impressive given the weight of imperial industry. When you can sacrifice billions of lives and pump out a near unending flow of arms to equip all the meat you have to herd into the grinder of war, wise leadership doesn't remain a requirement for survival.

    As impressive as Guilliman's bureaucratic skills were, the Imperium was still left in stagnation and decline, most damningly in the technological department, given that progress became heresy.
  2. But they don't get a host of Astartes and a huge ass ship in one swoop, which is my point. They limit their own resources, and thereby limit the resources of those who rebel against them.

    The Red Corsairs tricked a couple Chapters into joining them in rebellion, however several still returned to the Imperium because the Astral Claws themselves had no hold on their hierachy. What the Red Corsairs do represent is my point that their build up was a lot slower because they had to rope in other Chapters with dependent motives, and they gain new recruits is a slow stream, rather than starting off with a huge force.

    You understand that I'm debating the rate of corruption per incident, that the lessened availability of units within a single fighting force makes it so that it is harder for modern heretics to assemble into a fighting force of sufficient formidablity to hold their own against the Imperium as a whole. Isolation of resources is a trade-off, I'm not arguing that it was worth it, I'm arguing that there was a point to it. They limit themselves because they don't trust themselves, and since they don't trust themselves it's harder to monitor their forces exposure to the warp of individual chapters, but on the other hand when these chapters do turn, they have limited resources they take with them, and unless they maintain control of their production centers, they quickly find themselves precariously under-supplied an empire as gargantuan as the Imperium.
  3. Lol and you blame this decline in guilliman? Was it his fault horus turned and mortally wounded the emperor? Of course there would be a decline after the heresy, the loyalists were fighting for there lives, and half the mechanic in turned to chaos
  4. I suppose what horus did helped the imperium. Yup it all makes sense bow
  5. You mean after he sent all the traitors into the Eye of terror? Please explain to me how guilliman alone ruined the imperium. Him creating the codex? Really? You do know he didn't live long after the scouring, blaming him is just ridiculous
  6. Actually, half if the legions accepted it. Obviously one man controlling a huge number if astartes was a bad idea, so the codex was a logical choice
  7. I'm not saying I agree with it but I'm saying logically it makes sense. And like I said, half if the legions agreed with it
  8. Horus ain't the one to neuter their own military in the aftermath, nor did he reshape the imperium in fear if chaos and distrust of themselves. The paranoia, the repression, and the shackles of ignorance, these were the gifts of Guilliman to the new era.
  9. That was the point I was making, that the nature of corruption is different because of those choices, which means the trade off is different, with another set of beniffits and drawbacks(huge ones) but the merit this sytem does have is that less warriors disset as a group and they have less stuff when they do.
  10. There's really no evidence either way for the first part(we only know that people and Astartes still turn no what rate or how often) and the fact that it comes from different sources is my pint in the latter, they don't start off as a cohesive unit because the Imperium is no longer a cohesive unit. They created weakness in themselves that they share with those that turn against them.

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