the advantage is explicitly not promised if you read it. Different but equally is the concept is being put forward and that is not a promise of an advantage in expectation of an advantage expectation that there will be an advantage is counter to exactly the words that are being used to describe the process.line I think selling variety is perfectly worthwhile so long as its not in balancing an advantage is an advantage, but an advantage is not worth getting upset about if it is so minor for meddling that it doesn't actually have a real effect for the average player against the average player. you say the simple fact of having a variety is an advantage I argue that if it is it's not enough actually matter which is why I really don't care and I'd like to see them explore the concept. When I say explore the concept I mean let them throw stuff out there let us see what they're doing send in real game terms and then make a decision but demon eyes get ahead of time doesn't help anyone.

like I said we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not willing to make up my mind until I have more evidence and you seem dead set against it for what seemed like arbitrary reasons to me. I just don't see that fear mongering is a good way to sway people's mind before there's even evidence to tell what's actually going to happen.

Variety is advantage in tactical games (huge advantage) so when i type p2w = variety.

It`s not 2 late. They can do three things imo:
1) Change shop item looks so they look even cooler and more epic while removing any stats so item becomes a skin and nothing else (item could glow or offer extra animations and sounds like scream or boast when killing downed players).
- I`m up for this (competitive and pro players are ones that stay and make game more popular as they stream and advertise game on twitter, youtube, etc. and so far i haven`t seen one pro or competitive player supporting this kind of cash shop). Look at SMITE for example. You buy a game and you have gods unlocked (same model as EC) but cash shop has skins and voice packs only. Heroes of Newerth is one more game with good cash shop system (skins and voice packs only). And in the end we have Team Fortress 2, hats anyone?

2) Leave shop items as they are and just add normal versions in game as unlockables (shouldn`t be 2 grindy though)
- I`m up for this option as well as long as players wont be required to unlock vehicles or aircrafts or spend weeks to unlock weapons, upgrades and gadgets.

3) Leave it as it is.
- And hope you`l have steady player base

Take a look at F2P games and tell me what do they have in common? P2W cash shop with either op items or items that offer extra gameplay options which in the end offers advantage over certain specs, builds or items AND bad reputation cause of all p2w options available to players.

I`l take MMORPG called Allods online from russian devs as example that was amazing, for couple weeks game had more and more players coming in and then they put cash shop into game. Do i have to say what happened to game? Do people even know about this game? 1 year ago they removed cash shop and started normal server but it was 2 late. What i want to say is that no matter what kind of gem of a game you guys make 1st impression is what matters. If you fail at start you might as well start counting days till server closure. Don`t get me wrong, I`m writing this from personal experience of playing many games on competitive or pro lvls and from watching MMO trends go last 10+ years.

I can name you many games that failed after introducing p2w cash shop but i can`t name one that failed after introducing cosmetic and consumable cash shop(funny consumables like farting etc.). Look at BF with all those DLC weapons, twitch popularity went down damn fast.

If you worry about money enable some other payment options since not many ppl use PP in europe (For example I am waiting for more payment options before upgrading my account and purchasing anything else).

EDIT: To people that say that there is no p2w. If you do not buy FAV (Bike or floating elder board) you just spawn a rhino. Tell me what kind of response is this?
"Since you didn`t buy a bike/board from shop just spawn some other vehicle". I do not want to hear something like that ever again and I bought a damn bike even though it says that it will fall apart if i hit 1st rock on the road. We are talking about Warhammer IP, 2 many warhammer titles failed and i don`t want to see 1 more warhammer game with so much promise fail cause of such simple thing.

as I said unless and until you have the specific knowledge of specific numbers in Game of fact of how this is going to work all you're doing is basing your decisions on a fear of an outcome.

I've read before that every item in the Founder Store will be weaker than the items they're "replacing", which can be earned in-game.
So I will say with maximum confidence that there is a 0.00000000001% chance that this game will ever be P2W simply because all you have to do is play the game in order to earn gear better than those that pay money for their gear.
The only times that Founder Store gear will be better than "earned in-game" gear is if the devs happen to let one slip by without playtesting it enough. Then it is the duty of the whole community to throw them a bone every now and then to ensure that this weapon does not detract from the experience of the F2WAAAGGH!-ers.

What you're talking about is the 20% weaker quote which is over a year old now and was actually about Miguel's experience on AoC. It has nothing whatsoever to do with this game despite often being attributed to it. All cash shop weapons are meant to be like ingame ones but with stat changes that are intended to be balanced with more commonly available guns.

Thing is that there is no replacement for shop bike. If you don`t buy it you wont have access to 2 man FAV. Their response is to spawn another vehicle that has nothing in common with FAV from shop.

That was just an example, they ended up selling "sidegrades" instead of that...

I have said this a lot and I will say it again, it's way better so sell all the weapons and skip the progression (like PS2) than having a lot of weapons behind a paywall. There is a lot of cash shop models that work really well for other games, this sidegrades thing it seems like they want to give you the illusion (hopefully is just an illusion...) that you are buying power.

I'm failing to see what the overall point of this whole thread's argument has been.
Yes, there is a single vehicle available to purchase with IRL $$ for each faction, but we have literally zero knowledge of the other dozen vehicle types that will be available for each faction (arbitrary number since I know there are at least a dozen vehicles in the Imperium's arsenal, not to mention the CSM/Ork/Eldar as well), and each of these vehicle types are supposedly going to have a massive tree of customization options (i.e. upgradeable gear and/or cosmetics) but without knowing what any of the vehicles, or the gear, is going to be, then why all the fuss?
To me, it sounds like the flame war spawned by this thread is the product of an hastily thrown-together, unplanned business interview in a crowded, chaotic environment. This happens with literally every single company. Do you throw this much of a fit when you get BBQ sauce at Sonic instead of Honey Mustard or w/e else? Or how about whenever the gas prices jump up another $0.10 / litre? If having this particular bike means that much, then why not spend the $40 it costs to get a warrior pack and just put some of your RTP towards that? Its not like you'll even be able to play as SM/CSM/Eldar prior to next year without spending a minimum of $40 anyways. If after all of this, you're adamant about not spending any money whatsoever and are content with waiting until next year to unlock everything in EC, then have some confidence in BE that they'll include one of the other types of bikes/vehicles.

I'm just saying that until we, the whole community, actually have some factual information to go on, or better yet, an early game module to do some hands-on playtesting, then nobody here will be satisfied with spending their money beyond hoping that the devs support our wishes.

1) I wrote in previous posts that i own a shop bike and I still want other players to have 2seat FAV. I got it cause of skin and that`s it.
2) They said that bike won`t be in game unless you buy it from shop and closest thing will be rhino that is not FAV but transport/tank - this is like comparing Planetside 2 harasser to combat sundy (and trust me when i say this, GW will never allow rhino or something else be upgraded or transformed into 2man FAV). You can not compare these 2 vehicles and yet they mention them like they are responsible of same thing.
3) We are discussing current state of the game and if developers see that no one cares they will leave it as it is. We are not flaming. This discussion may seem heated but that is only because people want it to succeed and current mmo market is unforgiving.

And please stop comparing this situation with fast food or oil industries, apples and oranges -.-

EDIT: I am actually happy that they showed us cash shop so early. Hopefully they will take all posts into consideration and change accordingly. Usually games release cash shop after release and most of the time doom themselves with poor implementation.