I think it should take two Dbashes to reliably kill someone who is a melee specialist in melee, three if they are in heaviest armor, i'm willing to accept no durability damage in on clangs on Dbash in exchange for that. But by default if Melee actually get into, well, melee, unless the melee monumentally fucks up he should win.

Because it easier to defend yourself against a sword than a bullet... And because you only need something that can help deviate the sword trajectory to defend yourself and... well a bigger armor to block bullets or a shield.
The stun with D-Bash is a flaw, the back roll then shoot is a flaw (when in melee). Grosso modo, after a clang or melee hit, you should not be able to use a primary gun (secondary yes if there is a opening but I think some dmg nerf are needed on some and the removal of smart pistol, if you can't aim then stay dead).

And for Hawk, they can't lock, so they will just swing away then fly away, they have no interest to stay in melee. And if you complain about them leaving melee by jumping out, then you have to understand that you don't chase a Hawk with a sword and you have a secondary weapon which can break their flight.

maybe from the surface people saw Space Marine's melee and thought it was shallow, but the water was deep

you could exploit the cooldown between rolls, each chain had its own effect and grenades were an important part of the melee as well

@Thraxus do play any other videogames other than EC? not a diss, im legitimately curious

When Warhammer Online, Age of Reckoning died I was mortified, it was all I ever played.

I was then adrift on a bunch of other games, one of which being Space Marine.

But since EC came out I almost exclusively only played EC (I'm pushing 1950 hours now lol)

I did leave EC for a while and played Dead by Daylight for a month or 2 (awesome game also by bEhavi0ur). And have been toying with the idea of checking out the new Resident Evil game.

I just like the Warhammer franchise, am more of a fan of the lore than anything else though. If they had Dwarf Slayers in EC I'd be happy, the closest they have however is Space Wolves (and at the current state of the game, JPA deffinatly fit the bill being as fragile as a "Rice Paper Crane in a Wind Tunnel of Warp Fire" -tm

That sounds awesome, I tried getting that to work a year or so ago, couldnt get out of Tier 1 Empire, there was no RvR lake (pvp) it was filled with mobs.

Will give it a whack, miss my Slayer lol. Thanks.

huh, interesting

cool thanks!

Somehow I'm not sure if they're dumbing it down to try and fix it's foundations, or that their trying to make learning a melee system at all more irrelevant because they no longer want to bother fixing it...

I'm also somewhat skeptical of this making melee more 'robust' as they are removing shit rather than adding or tweaking around with it. If anything this makes it less 'robust' and like @Thrakka said it seems ridiculous if not hypocritical of them too change it in that manner.

IMHO melee had issues but I wouldn't start simply ripping the system apart unless you had something to offer in exchange. As it sits, the impression I get feels like it's just going to devolve from 'difficult to use' to 'you only have button mash...' Not exactly the direction I'd want to be going here.

Their just "dumbing down" the "overly complicated Melee system" that requires a Tzeentch like understanding of multiverse physics to be able to program and get right.

Their doing this to be more in line with the far more simplified "point and shoot" mechanics of Ranged.

Simple is good by the way, it means less can go wrong with back end mechanics

Point well taken. I guess we'll have to see what they have in store for us.

dis iz makin me az an 'ard boy sad....
buuut to talk about dis, i wud want axes and clubbz to have diffrent stats to accomodate different playstyles...such as (prepares teh copy past combo, this is my entire comment on what i think they should do for melee from my side and it is MASSIVE, and i apologise in advance.)

"in my eyez as a die hard slugga main i would be absolutely fine if they brought back all the original speeds for the melee weapons, i have gotten so sick and tired of seeing the swords it's not funny.
but if they truly wanted change i'd like to see something even more advanced than just bringing back speed, make all the standard melee weapons (so blades,axes and clubb/mauls) all the same speed, but with a twist that we already kind of see now. Each weapon will have the same speed as the other two within its line (so this means that power axes swing at the speed of power swords and so on for other factions) but all three had a different "curse and blessing" as i'll call it;

Axes will do the most damage out of the triad, but have the last amount of impact, meaning that you risk breaking your weapon for you're confidence in how good you are not clanging.
swords will be squad in the middle, not having any absolute bonus' but no downsides, jack of all trades weapon here.
and finally the clubbs/mauls will do the least amount of damage but have the highest impact rating, this would be placed for people who don't believe to be so god at avoiding clangs in melee, but will do less damage when they do.

now we could additionally make these such weapons even greater at the job when adding mods, swords could be the only ones with life steal and the most mods since its the jack weapon, axes would get the highest damage boost from damage mods and maybe pen mods, and mauls will have the highest impact mods. but no weapon can outperform the other through modding, such as swords can't have higher impact than an unmodded clubb.

this could not only bring back more weapons into melee but bring out people different play styles, you wanna be aggressive and trust your skill? grab an axe. You want to be more safe in melee and not have a huge risk of losing trades, rather prolonging the fight over ending it quickly? grab a clubb. you want a weapon that you can kind of rely on any situation, something to use for anything? grab a sword.

i want to see this because i'm disappointing in how melee is with the factions, especially for orks, who are supposed to be really close combat heavy players, but right now ill see more shootas and lootas over sluggas and stormboyz. And even when i do see stormboyz or sluggas they all run the same thing, a choppa blade, even though stormboy gets a price reduction in clubbs through his AP tree NOPE, gonna grab a blade. seriously how many orkz through this game since the ranged patch or melee slowing patch have you seen running around with the fucking Git Prod? i havnt seen a damn one, the only thing i see slower than the choppa blade right now is the power fist, and thats because its the only slow weapon that actually out damages the choppa blade in a second.

now i know that out of all four factions eldar get the least amount of melee weapons right now, but it's been known in the past eldar Banshees have carried Power Axes and mauls, hell you guys have a spear in the Eldar Content Files. Yeah it's been there for ages but still its a weapon that might come in."

AGAIN! sorry for the massive wall of text, i was going to crop a section out but i couldn't think on what was the most importan, again, my sincere apologies.