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Melee having different speed tiers isn't working with the RPS system. I-frames are horrible too

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gboon, Feb 26, 2017.


Are invincibility frames on rolls a cancer?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Yes, also fuck knives

  4. No, also fuck knives

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Asyran Eldritch Arkhona Vanguard

    It's not really a problem with Melee, it's just that TTK at range is so ridiculously low that most weapons kill you in less than 1.5s, 1s in an Eldar match.
  2. BaronXIII Arkhona Vanguard

    Well yeah, I wanted more customization and "choices needing to be made", and specialization. I didn't think they were going to cut TTK this bad though. I'm still on the fence with it. I don't really like super tactical gameplay like that, every shooter already does that. This game was nice because of the longer TTK.
  3. Gboon Gboon Cipher

    The TTK changes affect everyone, but the thing about Melee is usually taking a risk and charging forward. Before what might chip off some ground assault's armor inbetween clangs slightly from an enemy Tactical will now nearly (if not fully) kill them.

    Every second a melee is stalled is another second that an enemy will come by and see whats up and just kill you while you're in a knife vs dedicated melee stalemate.
  4. Asyran Eldritch Arkhona Vanguard

    I like the current balance where Eldar lose slightly in TTK and the current overall balance vs weapons. I personally think ranged weapons need a % cut in damage. Keep the TTK balance, but just raise the TTK ever so slightly.
    BaronXIII likes this.
  5. Ultima75000 Ultima75000 First Blood!

    The main problem is overall the changes have bogged down melee to be both unrewarding and near unviable.
    Speed isn't the biggest problem. In 1v1 melee duels remain roughly the same (except the bugged window of attacks with knives) but the 1 melee vs 1 ranged has been broken considerably. It's the window of time between attacks.

    The window of time for melee kills decreased and the window of time for ranged kills increased directly in proportion to it if not more so because ranged usually gets the first strike because THEY ARE RANGED. As of right now, the ranged classes are mowing down people (melee and ranged alike) that many players have stopped playing a melee class entirely.

    I don't blame them. I usually went in myself as a Wolf Priest or a Ground Assault with a pistol. 70% of the time I got shot to death. (Far away or if I got spotted close up) 20% I got behind someone and killed them. 10% I got close enough to someone to melee but the guy was skilled enough to land his d-bash and/or kill me.

    Now following the same tactics I personally used with this patch: 80% I got shot to death, 5% I got behind someone and killed them, 15% I got into range but I died before I could do more than single hit. In all honesty if I got close enough, well timed pistol shots killed off guard gunners more than any melee I've used this patch.

    The TTK change this patch made it that we die too quickly period. At the same time melee was nerfed enough that it takes longer to deal damage in comparison to the previous patch even with the lowered TTK. Before hand if a melee class got behind you, then your in trouble. Now its play a ranged class because you have the advantage of higher armor than all but 1 class and said class can't really kill you because you get to gun them down before they get the chance and they take longer to kill you period.
  6. I frames with rolling are needed, or else rolling is pointless.
    Fix other shit and maybe rolling wouldn't seem so bad.
    Eldritch likes this.
  7. Gboon Gboon Cipher

    It's a garbage crutch and the solution is just speeding up the roll.
  8. Ispend 2 to 3 hours yesterday evening in the LSM Garisson trying JPA, GA and tactical loadout in duel situation.
    Off course GA and JPA do not have the range ability Tac got, but tactical can in my opinion too easely kill melee dedicated troops.
    But in 1vs1 situation JPA jump pack work as intended and allow you to win matches even against far more tanky build.
    But the reality is otherwise, and i try it also in more team battle matches that's the moiment you know the balance for melee had been broken badly. If you have the jump against two melee you still can kill one and die, but against two range (TAC+Tac or TAc+heavy or TAc+Apo) you are dead before landing. Why?
    Because as all jump/fly unit (since this patch, before SH weren't conerned) as soon as yoiu jump you appear on the map so surprise effect against even middly aware enemy see you kill by two short bursts, ROF that melee class can't have (even if damage output is the same ROF make all the difference with off course range).
    So JPA/rokkit/raptor/SS and HB get their armour back or maybe you can aligned melee DPS on range DPS and ad +1 stamina by default on all melee class to give them the edge they need to be more able than range unit.
    In game imbalance is even bigger as most of the players are playing to win and get their KDR nice (even if it doen't show) and as melee half the room will be shooting at you (even killing their ally) just to get the point first.
    So we can have the return of range damage mitigation for melee participants (not only melee class) or and that will make some noise i believe a duel mode when you engage melee and your opement accept the duel both players are invulnerable to all interference. Why put something like that in plac? Because that's what make W40k gfreat with tose heroes duelling in the middle of a battle with everyone letting them fight (it is a honour question both for fighters but also the others around) and also because it is what make melee such a fun to play.
  9. I think @Demetri_Dominov suggested at one point that all of the rps attacks should have the same speed, which I agree with. we'd have to stop using the names 'fast attack" and "strong attack". the fast attack and strong attack would need to be differentiated in other ways.

    I don't think I agree with getting all weapons to attack at the same speed. Weapon speeds were working pretty well before the balance changes, with powerfists being OP followed by powerswords. Knives being allowed to defend people are only hurting now because of the ridiculously low ttk and the increased likelyhood that you'll be shot by the knife wielders' allies. I think the power axe and power maul need tweaking, especially the maul.

    I don't agree with knives being unable to clang.

    I am neutral towards removing iframes from rolling.

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