Patch 21. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeG7wIb8SEU&feature=youtu.be Suggestions/Questions 1. A snare effect that slows run speed should result when you're hit in back with melee strike. Much better than stun or stagger IMO. If you're saying no to both, you're saying there should be no adverse effects for eating a melee strike to the back of the skull or to the spinal cord? I should have been snared when the Warlock first struck me, and the Warlock should have been snared when he or she turned to flee. 2. Snare effect and diminished roll capability should be considered your weapon breaks and/or you're near death. Fighting till your weapon breaks then rolling away or just turning and running free of an opponent is total bullshit. 3. Status of the Chain Axe? Several strikes land and my opponent turns and runs without a care in the world. 4. Penalties for broken weapon. Rolling or running away shouldn't be so easy. 5. In every way imaginable(except for the first strike to the back) I was dominating this particular encounter, how then does an opponent simply turn on a dime and flee so easily? 6. How does the final strike to the back of my opponent miss? Surely they weren't out of range? Slower Swinging Axes and Armor Penetration(AP). -Force Sword has the same AP as Force Axe. That's broken. Axes in 40K have more AP than swords. -Chain Sword has the same AP as Chain Axe. That's broken. Axes in 40K have more AP than swords. -Power Sword has the same AP as Power Axe. That's broken. Axes in 40k have more AP than swords.
Using 40k AP values as an argument doesn't really hold water when in 5th edition they didn't even have different AP values, plus the AP values in tabletop don't really even make any sense. As an example, swords have more AP than power mauls in 40k 7th edition. Does that make any sense when it's well known that a sword swing bounces harmlessly off of chain armor, whereas a flanged mace is designed specifically for delivering blunt force trauma through chain? Plus they're all sheathed in power fields to begin with, the shape of the weapon shouldn't even make a difference.
- Penalty for Weapon Breaking = Can no longer clang and takes damage instead. AKA you get 33% more hits. They shouldn't just lay down and die, but have a disadvantage. Is fair. - When losing Melee fight run away - Well yes, but you can run after him instead of just trying to lunge, also you have a Pistol in your other hand use it. It kills weakened enemies VERY fast. - Strike to the Back - You weren't even close... They reduced all the Lunges to fix various other issues (as they should be) and you will now need to run and do a running quick-strike or shoot them in the back. I disagree with most of your suggestions except the AP points are good. 1. Just no... 2. No because they lose 33% of their melee fighting capability, that is PLENTY and why he started running. 3. Maybe Chain Axe could stand to hit harder, or just more AP like you say yes. 4. Yeah you should be able to roll or run, its not hard to catch or shoot them. Losing 33% of their melee fighting capability is plenty. 5. Everybody always has the option to do the "whoops" roll/jink. This is to make the game a little more palatible to casual players and @Thraxus, unless you want a 100 player Elite only playerbase after 1 year. (I kid @Thraxus ) 6. You totally missed. Run and strike now, lunges were reduced.
So the speed of all Axes should be increased almost as fast as Swords, since Swords do almost as much damage as an Axe Since swords and axes now have identical AP within each weapon type(chain, power, force), our Axe's are now a glorified sword that swings slower and that does a tad bit more damage. Basically all Axe's are now heavier versions of our swords. And that's really cool and really great for the for the game because??? So much for weapon diversity and different play styles.
Negative. I was simply talking about AP. They can still do more base damage and have different swing speeds and force tiers. "Almost as much damage" isn't the same, even 10%-15% can make a huge difference. Look at the Combat Knife, it only does 15% less damage than a Chainsword, yet so many people say its useless... why? We want people's armor to actually account for something, unlike how right now everyone who takes Plasma can just Pen everything. I realized after he posted what he did that his argument for AP not being changed is better than your argument for it to be changed. Now I am rationalizing it with the thoughts his statement evoked in my mind. Feel free to post more opinions though.
Until next patch. Then there are some. The patch after that removes the rules again, and the patching following that one removes melee altogether.
@BrentEllison We seriously need to update the Melee combat rules. Dynamite is missing from the Rock, Paper, Scissors equation. Rock, Paper, Scissors, Dynamite.(RPS/D) Allowing players to roll out of a Dbash breaks R/P/S system. I start to Dbash, you start to strong attack, I see the STrong attack coming, roll out of my bash and start shooting you WHILE YOU'RE STILL WINDING UP STRONG ATTACK= I win. This is probably the worst thing to hit melee combat rules the entirety of Alpha. Seriously guys playing RPS with dynamite? Unbelievable. -I cast Dbash(scissors), you cast strong attack(rock), I see your cast of Strong Attack(Rock), but I get re roll my cast AFTER already throwing down Scissors(Bash) and I reroll dynamite. While you're stuck casting Rock, I shoot you in the ass or in the face. Who would ever play with anyone cheating at rock paper scissors? Would you play with a friend that cheats at RPS? I wouldn't play a friend that cheats at RPS and I wont play a game that allows players to cheat at RPS. If this cheese stands I'm out. This is destroying the entire foundation upon which EC melee combat is built. You guys have an awesome system, we just need to get it working right, and we're damned close right now. We're getting there as far as melee with patch 21, but adding Dynamite to RPS just broke the very foundation of the entire melee system. Allowing someone to reroll their RPS is cheating, and nobody likes playing a game that allows cheating. Dbash spammers need to be punished for spamming the bash with Strong Attack just like fast attacker spammers need to be punished with the Bash. Allowing players to roll out of the bash is cheating of the worst kind. How do you beat a player spamming Dbash? The only way to beat Dbash is with strong attack, but every time you strong attack they can roll out of the bash. THE MELEE ENCOUNTER THAT NEVER ENDS, that punishes an offensive play style, that caters specifically to ranged classes(allowing the bash to be spammed vs melee and allowing players to roll out of the bash) and you get shot by 20 other opponents while screwing around with a broken melee system where your opponent can counter every thing you throw at them and allows cheating. What "wildcard" do melee classes get versus ranged classes in the Rock vs Pea, range vs melee duel of firearms? What "saving throw" do melee classes get versus ranged opponents at a ranged encounter? What chance does the Bolt pistol have at 40 yards versus a Heavy Bolter, Bolter, Stalker Bolter, Plasmagun, Plasmacannon, Shuriken anything? Ranged classes have a veritable cornucopia of close combat options compared to melee classes ranged options. Now you're going to give ranged classes Dynamite in the Rock, Paper, Scissors equation, and for all intents and purposes you are destroying the bedrock of EC melee. This has gone too far and for me it's too much. You're bending over backwards to cater to shooter fans who want to see melee as a minor annoyance they'd rather not have to trifle with. And FYI thanks to the across the board nerf to all melee attack ranges, back peddling beats strong attacks when you start the strong attack with an opponent standing right next to you. Hell back peddling pretty much beats all right now. A blow to the back of a fleeing Eldar, the Eldar recovers and is out of melee range by the time I recover from my melee animation. If i have caught a fleeing opponent and landed a blow to the back, they just keep on running as if nothing happened. That is totally and completely broken. A blow to the back should STOP A FLEEING ELDAR OPPONENT. The player landing a Power Axe to the spinal cord of a fleeing Eldar should either snare the fleeing player, or be able to land a follow up blow before the player being stabbed in the back can run out of range. THERE'S NO PENALTY FOR GIVING YOUR BACK TO THE ENEMY. This is utterly broken. The Eldar player should NOT be able to start running again at full sprint before the melee opponent can capitalize on the strike to the back.
