Ok. This is the way I percieve the system, I believe this is how it works now: - Rock Paper Scissors is: Fast Attack beats Heavy Attack beats Bash beats Fast Attack. (Just including for completeness, I know you know this.) - RPS rules take effect regardless of weapon Force Tier, but deal damage to the loser. The damage is based on weapon. No durability loss, no stun. The loser's attack is interrupted. - IF both players choose the same (aka both Rock) THEN there is a Clang and Force Tiers come into play. One or both players lose an amount of durability based on the difference of Force Tiers. - IF a player loses all durability they can no longer play RPS and lose every strike, taking damage. There may also be other minute mechanics, but this is the general functionality of the system. As a series of examples: Space Marine A with Combat Knife is fighting Chaos Space Marine B with a Power Fist. Scenario 1: A chooses Bash, B chooses Fast Attack. Current System: B is interrupted and A deals some damage to B. Both players choose a new attack. Previous System: B is interrupted AND has a short stagger, A deals some damage to B. A now gets one free shot. Scenario 2: A chooses Heavy Attack, B chooses Fast Attack. Current system: A is ìnterrupted and B deals damage to A. (Likely a death as is PowerFist) Previous system: Same. Scenario 3: A and B both choose the same attack (any of them). Current system: Clang. A loses durability and breaks weapon. Neither deals damage. Both players free to attack but B will automatically win due to broken weapon. Previous system: Clang. A loses durability. Neither deals damage. Both players free to attack but A has half durability and is almost in the deep end. I will reiterate here: The only things they really changed in Patch 20 was Bash doesn't stun and Force Tiers were heavily increased. Now to address your points: I still say it is absolutely unnecesary to have Stuns. Why? All they do is let you have a free hit for more damage. So, why not just have winning the RPS which CAUSES the stun simply do more damage? This way melee stays fast and won't have these stun breaks that simply delay the end. I realize getting the Stun on your enemy feels rewarding and empowered, you now have lordship over their life, and maybe that is worth the risk of keeping Melee longer and thus the increased risk that you'll just get shot/stabbed in the back. I don't believe it is, but that can be up for discussion. Lastly, they have said in the last two twitches that they want to improve the visual feedback for when you win these Rock Paper Scissors matchups, so that then will hopefully fufill the reward psychological factor. We will see.
I am unsure what your video is supposed to prove. It just looks like you are lagging... Do I need to make a video with confirmation bias showing melee working in Patch 20 now?...
There's a practical aspect to the stun. For example, the D.Bash from a tactical stunning a melee specialist would allow you to take a few quick body shots, which may do more damage than 1-2 knife swings. We've already seen that they have no intention of making it so you can escape or reset melee, but being able to use your most damaging weapon should be the reward for winning the RPS. Non-melee specialists who get into melee (and play it correctly if not perfectly) can't seriously be expected to win with just the knife and d.bash kick alone. The wargear is already showing the effects of toughness on non-melee specialists. This is all I've ever wanted: a reliable, consistent punishment severe enough to deter light attack spam while shortening the window for the followup evade attack. Back when melee was all stunlocks and slam spam, I at least knew if I had won or lost because of my own mistake--not because my only option was to bash and hope for the best. Netcode casts a wide net. It could mean a lot of things. I don't know much about UE4 or replication in UE4, but generally, the server takes the average of each client's game state and updates the world based on that average. People will see each other in different spots on their respective computers, and the server has to compensate for that. It's why you sometimes die after you've run around that wall or into the building. In your video, you also showed the odd portion of rubberbanding with the raptor while you were driving in the transport, but he was also engaged in melee with that imperial fists shield. It's very hard to pinpoint, but the softlock could've had something to do with it.
I am sorry, are you suggesting the best reason to keep the Stun is so that Tactical classes can use their Rifle class weapons in Melee?? Instead of their knives and pistols AKA their Melee weapons??? "Non-melee specialists who get into melee (and play it correctly if not perfectly) can't seriously be expected to win with just the knife and d.bash kick alone." Yes, they can and should, if they choose the correct RPS then yes, knife all the way.
I am. I already do, and I will continue to do so because it is the smartest thing do to, especially in patch 20, as a tactical. I don't understand why you have this notion of purity; they clearly lost in the RPS system in this scenario. I should be able to punish however I wish, whether it's a few quick shots from a rifle or a krak grenade or knife attacks. Though I'm less inclined to use the krak grenade because that does feel a bit like cheating.
But I'm not lagging and I'm not the only person experiencing this type of teleporting the entire time I'm playing. My internet is fine and the same as it's ever been, my frame rates are fine and the same rate they've been(on average). The only change in the equation is a new build.
The "notion of purity" stems from emulating the source material. Read any lore or books and Tacticals and Avengers always engage in close combat as often as ranged. It also stems from pure game mechanics, by enforcing a Melee system it ensures Assault classes get the Close Quarters combat that is entitled to them for engaging you (aka Locked in Combat), while also enforcing them as roughly equal fighters, with the edge going to the specialist class. Instead of it being possible for them to merely get kicked away and gunned down or have a grenade stickied to their chest. Sure, but in the new build I am experiencing zero teleports, whereas I had them occasionally in patch 19/18. Also others aren't experiencing them at all either. So... is it the game/patch? Unclear. Seems to have improved for me and others, and gotten worse for others. Can it be another outside factor? Could be. Lots of things can affect network latency. Maybe lots of people in your area are watching Olympics. Maybe there is a new hole in the ozone layer above your house. Maybe you are downloading too much porn in the background.
For all intents and purposes, anyone that is engaged in melee is locked into melee. You cannot escape or disengage without getting lucky or having someone else intervene. That's where the combat lock you mention is coming in to play. The lunge attacks from GAs cover enough distance to stagger a fleeing opponent, and the JPAs are... JPAs. Trying to outrun them right now (or in any patch prior) is suicide. Therefore, you have your locked melee combat with the specialist edge. Why shouldn't tacticals be allowed to use their primary (and most damaging) weapon in combat if they beat you? Are they really supposed to do the Melee Waltz until their inevitable death? If the d.bash doesn't do enough, melee will dominate this game. There are no disengages or resets. Ranged characters do need something to slow that momentum--probably in the form of a stagger or a stun. Just to close out my earlier points on tacticals v melee with some support: https://www.twitch.tv/40kcrusade/v/24310269?t=38m10s (Brent showing this is how tacticals should fight melee) And I've attached the game's description of a tactical as a ranged character. @Njord-Halfhand They mention in that old twitch stream about certain melee actions "being too fast for the server" which lead to teleportations. The current issues could stem from something similar. Thought you'd find that interesting.
@Njord-Halfhand To begin with I love the fact you bring the issue up (and I'm truely grateful to you): Axes and Maces (and banshee swords, but to a lower extent) have a larger AoE than the swing visual effect. Therefore, you get hit when you should have been 50cm away from the axe/mace. This issue is minor. I mean it's not happening for many players, given it depends mostly on the combat style (I usually am borderline with my enemy's attacks, just to land one after his is over), and even though it's quite frustrating, I can deal with it. I'm just pointing out the issue. (By the way, if anyone says that's not an issue, I'll be eagerly waiting for the banshee to come out so people start complaining about it in order to fixe it.) I like how you complained about the melta's strength when you were just charging through a beam of superheated air the whole time of the burst and then say it's "too stronk". But that's not our topic here. Also you have a powerfist, which is a slow and heavy weapon. I expect it to be superpowerful, super painful, and super slow. I expect it to have inertia. This footage might be an isolated case, but given how smoothly and cusually you're doing it, I think it's more of a usual trickshot.... that shouldn't happen with a Fist. With a sword, I'd be okay with it, but not with a fist. FF to 5.26 to see the 180° no scope powerfistbackstabouttanowhere. @GodKingWashington I understand being a tactical, you want to use your best weapon in every situation, but then why can't melee specialists throw their melee weapons when at long range? Because that'd be legit... What I'd like to see regarding melee and ranged classes is that a Dbash would still protect you, regardless of the equipped weapon (primary / knife+pistol) but trying a melee attack (and I mean attack like Fast or Strong attack, DBash aside) would automatically switch to pistol+knife. rather than primary+knife. If you want your primary weapon back, just switch to it, you'll have to stall for the next second, the price for a greater firepower. If you decide to fight with the primary weapon, you lose the ability to effectively attack in melee, but you can defend yourself. Also, krak grenade is supposed to be anti vehicle. So to use it in CQC, you have to be skilled. And I don't mean landing a random DBash, stun the target to infinity, krak grenade his face and run away skilled. I mean ACTUALLY skilled using movement prediction. I generally dislike the lock on and soft lock. When I throw an attack in a specific direction, I want it to go in this very direction. I understand that lock is required for Console/controller players who happen to go in melee. I might suggest something (absolutely horrible to implement in the game for controllers), but that could correct the problem for lock on (for controllers). It's too late in development, but I'll suggest it anyway. (This part is only about communication Also, some of you guys are stating that they are SUGGESTING options to clear problems, or at least report them. But the very tone that some use is so categoric that it feels like they know the absolute truth and if you don't agree with them, you're just being blind/denying the obvious/a douchebag. Giving suggestions shouldn't be some kind of orders yelling time. It's about giving one's opinion which, by definition, is partial. You're giving ideas of scenarios that COULD happen, that SHOULD, that you'd like to happen. Not that NEED TO/HAS TO/MUST happen.
