This guy (Aceryl) posted something funny, but true (bottom of page 6): https://forum.eternalcrusade.com/th...-issues-between-melee-and-ranged.64401/page-6 lol! This guy is spot on. I got this game finally, a couple weeks ago, so I've only played the recent version. I've heard previous versions had a different melee system. The melee system in the 2010 "Space Marine" video game is kinda like what the quote says too, at least with the tactical class, because in that game, he can roll, he's the only class that can. The Devastators could side hop, and the Assault could side hop and of course use it's jump pack to fly. All this dodging stuff, this dodging "nonsense", if you will. You go in to smash someone in the face, but they stop drop and roll right out of the way, which is incredible considering these are big power armored suits with bulky backpacks that have cooling vents sticking out the sides, big armor with big equipment strapped to it. I can clearly see in the fluff, that Marines can definitely run/move fast, taking cover and sprinting with very quick reflexes, being able to survive long falls (jump off a 2 story building, and sustain the landing without breaking a bone). But they're not gonna be rolling around on the ground, or god forbid do a fucking backflip while wearing Terminator armor. Thats just silly. I could see the Eldar being capable of doing all this acrobatic shit, or any highly skilled assassin unit in light, or no armor. But not Space Marines. So he rolls away from your sword! Great... so now your chasing him away, you end up running around in circles, and, yeah - its like a dog trying to bite his own tail. Its pretty comical if you think about it. This side effect of the melee and movement system is not as pronounced in the Space marine video game, as it is in Eternal Crusade. It basically all boils down to rolling. In addition to rolling, in Eternal Crusade, there is also the "lunging" that takes place with every light or heavy melee attack. - - - - - - - - - - - I always envision as realistic combat as possible. Although "combat" rolling has been in alot of games for a long time, and it can make sense in the context of action adventure games where you character is a skilled spelunker like in Splinter Cell, or Assassin's Creed. Gears of War is the game that really solidified this gameplay mechanic for third person big team multiplayer arena shooters, straight up competitive war games, not action adventure. Gears of War is a fun game, but its kind of ridiculous seeing all these big guys doing summersaults and cartwheels and jumping jacks one after the other, over and over, as they skip hop and prance around the battlefield. They don't even bother to run or walk, naw, fuck that, we be olympic athlete long jumping this bitch, lol. The cover mechanics and blind fire, the shooting mechanics in general in Gears of War was pretty cool though. Quickly moving into cover is cool, and realistic. Soldiers actually do this sort of thing, yah dig? I mean I could see these guys try do a summersault once in a while on the battlefield, but only to try to escape a shrapnel explosion, a grenade, and only do that physical maneuver to get into cover, only perform that gymnastic shit ONCE. They're only diving out of the way, jumping and scrambling with a jolt of adrenaline to try to dodge that explosion by all means possible. Not to do an instant backwards summersault repeatedly 24/7 to dodge someone's chainsaw bayonet. Haha, there yah have it again, another game ripping of WH40K. CHAINSWORDS FOR THE WIN! - - - - Aside from redoing the entirety of Eternal Crusade's character movement and melee combat gameplay mechanics, well, lets take a look at what can be done with the current system. Don't get me wrong, I like this game. Its better than the Space Marine game, because theres just so much more to do. Its Space Marine with Battlefield! Awesome. Hopefully some day we get to PlanetSide scale. So I'll list a couple of things I'm thinking: Character movement: - Get rid of "combat" rolling. Face it, that ain't combat, thats just gimmicky. It always has been, damn Gears of War for pushing that shit. SIDE POINT ** You can still take cover and perhaps "sprint" to cover, basically move extra quickly and duck down behind something, so space bar would be used for that. In addition to the normal way of going into cover, you can press space bar if close enough to cover to get in faster. This would be faster than using shift key and simply going straight into it. You walk or run towards something, then hit space bar to dash into it extra quick. I dunno, I'm just thinking of uses for the Space Bar, now that you cant roll. *** With combat roll gone, what do we use the space bar key for? An actual jump? Naw, that would be even more annoying, thats bunny hopping territory. Thats ugly territory. Unless theres accuracy nerfs to stop people from hopping around all day. - Instead of getting rid of combat roll, find a way to nerf it. Like how Battlefield and Call of Duty have nerfed bunnyhopping, there could be a way to nerf rollerderby. The obvious is Stamina, and we already have that in Eternal Crusade. So, how 'bout make one roll take up all stamina, and you can only roll when the stamina bar is full. That way there'd only be one chance per opponent, of said opponent doing an absurd (unless they're Eldar, then its not so absurd) backwards summersault with amazing speed and recovery time, easily done so as if he had just taken a simple step back. Amazing... (not so amazing if its Eldar; acrobatics actually fit their form, so it makes sense they can do this)... He could only do the roll once, and it would still be useful to him, it could give him the edge he needs to fight you back. but thats the thing, he's forced to fight you. He can't roll around like sonic the hedgehog. SIDE POINT*** I'm not saying the fights are really that annoying all the time, with the constant chasing and rolling around. Definitely a bit of an exaggeration on my part to drive the point home. I still have fun with this game as it currently is, I can enjoy pretty much every aspect of it. The melee combat as it is, is tricky, but it can be pulled off, and its fairly satisfying. The devs here at EC tried to complicate the melee system so that you don't instantly bash someone's skull in guaranteed everytime you use it. Character Melee - Get rid of the lunge. Make it optional, not part of your character's melee attack sequence. So you do a light or heavy attack, and your character swings his sword in the direction he is facing, instead of the direction your cursor is. This way its not just point and click, you have to maneuver your guy into position. But now, you no longer lunge, you just take a step forward and do basic melee animation attack. To do the lunge attack, you press a different button, or hold down alt while you click attack. Playing "WASD", I usually always assign my left "alt" key as an attack modifier button, secondary/tertiary fire, secondary melee attack, alternate melee attack, etc. **** This is a side thing, but maybe press space bar to lunge and if you land your lunge into an opponent, click for an attack. So the lunge is completely independent from any melee attacks, but you can combine them. You can click attack thru the entire lunge animation, you can wait for the lunge to end and click attack, or you can attack half way thru your character's lunge animation. It all depends on how close, when and how your in game character model connects with the opponent's, based on his movement and yours. ***** I'm thinking, with the lunging as sort of the replacement for the rolling, I definitely want the lunging to take up stamina, and to be shorter ranged than the rolling, and you can only lunge forward. To lunge backward, you have to turn around and face that direction. The whole idea is stop people from spamming space bar to roll away from a fight. Thats not how anyone would fight, even the Eldar wouldn't do that. They'd actually jump on top of yah and stick a blade in yah, like this: http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n303/sidstylerninne/dark-eldar.jpg - - - - - - - What do you guys think? ***EDIT: The main thing anyone would want is a ferocious melee fight. If two opponents each had chainswords, I wanna see a wicked chainsword duel, not some fucking summersaults! lol If a chainsword weilder gets the drop on a tactical marine with only a knife, I don't wanna seem him rolling around either. He could still win the fight, even though his knife shouldn't be able to deflect a chainsword, let alone stun the guy with the sword. Hey could parry though. Or he could stick to his gun and just keep shooting. I don't wanna see the gun being able to stun the chainsword wielder either. Maybe be able to parry, but as a last resort, and that would be even worse than using a knife.
I've seen this dog chasing its own tail melee. Its players that spam RMB like a muppet at each other when not coming directly at each other. The problem exists between the Keyboard and Chair there. I just want the I-frames removed, maybe speed up the roll and increase its distance to compensate. Would help melee AND grenades.
Mmm no...think it's a lock on issue. I find it also only happens almost exclusively when I'm fighting Orks. Their hoppy animation seems really good at this. There's a point of no return even on lock on of putting you on a directional path of where the target WAS .1 seconds ago but if you both keep swinging at the exact same time you will continually circle around eachother until someone finally manually aims or rolls heh.
At which point you either spam attack like an idiot or you stop and AIM. I know that word is apparently scary to melee users but I rarely to never use auto lock since its a bitch move crutch.
Yeah, thats right, since melee attacks make you lunge, you're constantly chasing each other if you miss. Could just get rid of lunge and roll altogether, so sprinting or fighting back is your only option.
-Rolling + Bolter fire is faster and more effective and faster than Rolling + Melee because BHVR purposely broke the evade attack and buffed rolling + shooting. -Rolling + Bolter fire out ranges most strong attack ranges when the melee player starts off standing right next too the Tactical prior to the roll. -Backpedaling + Bolter can be more effective than melee in a melee enounter. We can backpedal too fast while firing. -Tactical archetypes can instantly transition from Bolter to knife to bolter to knife with no delay or weapon swap animation. This instant switching from Bolter to knife or knife to bolter breaks/bypasses/defeats 2/3 Rock, paper, scissors mechanics. -Backpedaling in a tight circle while firing makes you untouchable to most incoming strong attacks -Melee lunge attacks(sprint + RMB) are broken and work about 1/5 to 1/10 times during a match. Instead of doing a sprint and a dynamic fast attack right out of the sprint we stop, wind up, and swing. Versus a backpedaling + Bolter firing opponent this is a death sentence for the melee player -Melee dps compared to ranged dps is a total joke. -Free knives shut down all incoming melee damage vs 300 to 600 LP melee weapons for 2 to 4 clangs. Combine those clangs with rolling, bashing, bashing, rolling + shooting a knife wielding player can drag out an encounter vs a melee archetype for 10 to 30 seconds. That same knife wielding player can drop their melee opponent in .5 to 2 seconds via ranged fire. Those bullets say plenty. If it's not perfectly obvious melee is designed from the ground up to fail versus Tactical archetypes(anything that wields a knife). At almost every single opportunity in a close combat encounter melee archetype melee mechanics are inferior to Tactical mechanics. Melee mechanics set the melee player up for failure vs Tactical close combat mechanics.
I just want iframes removed for explosions. Thats it. I can accept dodging gunfire and blades, but rolling or flipping through an omnidirectional blast is just ridiculous.
If it's not "bitch move" enough to be removed from Dark Souls I see no reason to call it out here. I'm old, if I want the game to save me some camera rotating stress on my wrist so be it. LET ME HAVE IT. Alternatively if the lunges were removed I'd be more inclined to get rid of lock on. If lunges stay as they are though fuck that.
