About the sprint attack, few weeks ago i was messing around and i accidentally found it, after failing horribly multiple times trying to use it today i simply dont trust it at all, i play as if that doesnt exist, what i found however is that if you sprint in a straight like for about 2 seconds it does not fail, at least for me it didnt fail once, if id do i slight turn to one of the sides that 2 seconds vanish, having to run 2 more so maaaaybe there is such thing as an acceleration you need to reach for that attack to trigger? i know that sprint speed is all the same(besides the 0.5 seconds from where you transition from "walking" to runing) but maybe thats the game logic

EDIT: holy crap did alpha look cool! those executions are dope as hell

even after 5 seconds of running i still have problems doing it RELIABLY

So we can no longer roll and melee attack quickly "because". But it's perfectly fine that we can roll and shoot quickly.

Just fyi we can roll and shoot faster(rounds on target) than we can roll and melee attack(weapon on target). That's so totally fucked up it's beyond belief. What makes it so infuriating is that these bogus, broken, inferior melee mechanics used to NOT work this way. Someone had to purposely nerf great melee mechanics to put melee in such a terrible state.

There also used to be a bit longer delay AFTER we roll, BEFORE we could fire our bolter. The animation took longer for the bolter to appear in our hands AFTER we rolled. That delay was designed to encourage melee, i.e. you could roll and knife immediately vs a melee opponent where as it took much longer to roll, shoulder your weapon, and fire. This is another one of those "someone in their infinite wisdom" changes that boggles the mind. Someone, in their infinite wisdom, thought it would be okay to nerf the rolling melee attack while also removing the delay for Tactical so the Tac can immediately fire after coming out of a roll. These types of decisions just blow my mind.

That's game mechanic #127(nerf rolling melee attack) and game mechanic #128(buff rolling and shooting) that explains how melee archetypes are, at their very core, designed from the ground up to FAIL in close combat vs Tactical archetypes.

The thing is back in Alpha the sprint attack covered more ground and worked 100% of the time, every single time you were running and activated a quick attack. We need the sprint attack to work reliably EVERY SINGLE TIME and I think it wouldn't hurt to add back in a bit more distance to the lunge attack.

And yes, the original executions were without any doubts the single coolest aspect of Eternal Crusade. One of the top 5 coolest things I've ever seen in a PVP game.

So essentially it was like backstab fishing in dark souls?

Damn, i gave it a try today and yeah there is something off now, the closest thing i got is that at a certain moment of the sprint animation is when it works wich makes it very unreliable, my bad for not testing it in the day i posted it

Yeah i can see that making a HUGE difference on melee reliability, i had way too many moments similar to your videos but with a powersword, there is only so much you can do vs a guy walking backwards shooting you with a bolter(as dumb as that sounds lol) to me the roll is the one that hurts the most even for enemies, if they roll is a free heavy if you time it right or a free normal attack if you spam and if you roll there is plenty of time for the enemy to shoot you

Although i wonder that few comments before said that this system was a nightmare as it made melee too effective? i did not play the alpha, only a week of beta so i cant say it for myself but if thats the case, i wonder if thats not the right way to go? because you know, melee should be slightly superior to ranged exactly because ranged can pick you off at you know... range, but then again i dont know how OP that was as i never played it

Or just get good... http://plays.tv/video/590cc67c44497daf32/how-to-be-good-at-scorpion

I'm going to take that personally. I'm trying to make constructive observations, but you're being pretty hostile with a show-off video... so I'm going to pick at the first 2 minutes of your video...

Kill number:

1. Opponent unaware. 2 hit kill.
2. Opponent did not block, started reloading at melee range and rolled in melee range.
3. Opponent did not block and rolled at melee range.
4. This was a legit win, but it was using a standard combo when any melee approaches. We know JPA's never open with Dbash, so the fast-attack into Dbash combo is a very standard opening. It does take skill to learn and know this combo, but once you're aware of it, it is a very easy ticket to kills. There are plenty of opponents that can one-up the fast-Dbash combo by double strong attacking.
5. Opponents rolled twice at melee range.
6. Opponent was unaware of you.
7. Opponent was unaware of you. 2 hit kill.
8. Opponent was unaware of you. 2 hit kill.
9. Opponent did not block and rolled at melee range.
10. Opponent was unaware. I will give you credit for re-positioning well and re-gaining the element of surprise, but this does not credit any ability to actually win a direct melee engagement.
11. Opponent was already damaged and rolled in melee range.
12. The multi kill was a good one. If it was your grenade, it was well played. If it was someone else's grenade, this is not your credit to take. This obviously does not pertain to actual direct melee, however.
13. The JPA was spamming fasts anyway and was utterly surrounded. Even if he had thrown a strong, he was doomed.
14. Opponent unaware and rolled in melee.
15. Opponent unaware and did not block or do anything at all to defend himself.

I didn't really care to pick further, but I did not see anything here that I would really call outplay. This is just a series of players that do not understand how to properly defend themselves.

Just for clarification, the reason I am pointing out the evade rolls at melee range is because every time an opponent rolls in melee, they are giving you a free fast attack hit. The roll recovery is too long for them to protect themselves before you get a hit in. Any experienced EC player knows this and does not try to roll away from a melee attacker. Almost all these opponents tried rolling and gave free damage.

Furthermore, my point is not really disproved by the video. I did not see any smooth transitions of attacks from rolling, even on Eldar. You can see it clearly early in the first clip where the ultramarine gets a few boltgun shots on you before you recover from the roll.

That's wierd. I have absolutely not been able to re-create roll attacks whatsoever.

It's really strange how EC can give totally different experiences for different people. I know @Thraxus has a totally different experience to me with the strong attack & Dbash interaction. He finds the Dbash beats his strong attacks, but I find my strong attacks win with 100% consistency.

I think an easy solution to this is to make any evade moves mono-directional.

the whole jet boosting in a circle thing was bloody absurd anyway. Surely it would be easy enough to limit evade rolls and dashes to linear movement.

Having said that, the old trick was to dash directly forward, lock on and attack from behind. I guess that is still a possibility even with linear movement.

Also I remember that only primarily being a problem because you could evade out of Dbash stuns and backstab them before they even recovered from the Dbash kick animation.

So melee is fine then smart guy? "GG" is the first indication that the person using this phrase in a sentence and meaning it is either 12 years old or an idiot.

The devs have admitted melee is broken, the entire community save a few know it's broken. But we're all wrong and just need to get better?

So someone saying get good is now a 12 year old.....right.....
It was a comment made in jest. Melee is broke as fuck, I'm merely saying there are a lot of incompetent melee players...that can improve just by getting the basics known and predicting the enemy player.

No I agree....a melee fix will be amazing and I for one am hoping it will happen soon