Melee is indeed too slow paced and leaves you open for external interference for too long, i've been saying that for ages, at the same time it's too effective because damage is too ridiculously high, for me melee needs: To be faster To deal less damage per strike, 1-2 hit Kos are bullshit unless we're talking about PF and Klaw charged attacks. To have a lower travel distance per strike and allow more free control of the character (i.e. not be dependent on a lock-on to function) To have a more reliable TTK because there's nothing you can really do to elongate a ranged engagement but you can have a melee engagement for several seconds, i kid you not, i've once been locked in a duel with a Raptor for some good 25-30 seconds, it only ended because a tactical in my team killed the basterd, what i suggest to achieve so is make clangs deal partial damage to both fighters.
The only issue I have with melee at present are the fucking Dbash animations. If they hit, it takes a half hour for the animation to finish and by then my opponent has recovered and rolled away. Or if they're Eldar: Power attacked me twice.
@JohnnyWayne . Aye. Well. I think someone did the research and found that the baneshee has a quicker attack speed by like .2 seconds or something that would only matter in a long combat lasting 10 seconds+. But it's irrelevant. I'm going to agree with everyone and say that having different attack speeds in a skill based game on race alone is is highly imbalanced. Everyone shoukd have a standardized attack speed, and it should be faster than it is now- with recovery times, including stun and stagger reduced. @Hendron I think we need to make a distinction here. We're not just talking about balance. We're talking about a tweak to a core mechanic that will help make balancing easier, combat flow better, and have melee finally get out of Alpha and into Beta with balancing being its primary focus. With the exception of a Devestator, you should be able to fight back against a melee class effectively. Having a Dbash have a massive windup isn't competitive. There is a reason why an Assault is RMB spamming, he's trying to break your weapon like an Ork. Smashing Rock repeatedly will break anything. Not going to say it's useless, but it definitely should be sped up. To everyone else drawing conclusions about different recovery speeds across the races, it's irrelevant - you're on the right track, going the wrong way. They are universally too long. The stuns are too long, the clangs are too long, the ability for hawks and raptors to escape is too high, your attacks as a tactical marine seem slow against an Eldar and an Ork, PRECISELY because of you cannot act on your natural speed to catch them. You are being forced to not be able to react in a way that would be natural to you because of the limits your in game character has on them. Now, again, I'm not asking that these limits be totally removed. But for example; and this is the most obvious oneI have seen this happen across every race and every class, if I'm stuck doing a a Dbash animation, I'm very open to a power attack. Only, it's so incredibly long to execute, by the time I'm done performing it, the moment I wanted it to occur has long passed, the character I targeted who was RMB spamming, is not stunned, and has swtiched to a power attack 3/4s of the way through my animation. My animation is complete, I now am stuck in a "recovery" frame, and by the time I can move again, bam, I'm hit over the head by a power attack. Now since this is all about timing we have to be specific. Does power attack counter Dbash? Yes. Are you supposed to react to certain elements of game play? Yes. But here's where we move the train in the other direction: Why does my Dbash take almost 2 seconds to execute when RMB can be performed, recovered, and ceased/changed into a power attack in half the time? Why is it not a parry? That can be executed and recovered in the same time it takes to do the same as a RMB? Look at how SM does it. SMs combat is about momentum and ECs is no different. If you use normal fast attacks first, you force your enemy to retreat and find a suitable counter. The F key backhand, and the shoulder bash reversed this momentum and allowed your character to push the attack. This essentially ebbed and flowed until one side died. It worked because there was phenominal flow with character movement, with the exception of a shoulder bash hitting nothing but air, there was no "recovery" there was only transition that tied each action seemlessly into the next, and EC SEVERELY needs to change from "recovery" to transitions in order to make melee work better. In EC, combat ebbs and flows in essentially the same way with a bit of a middle clashing ground thrown in as well. The idea is to outplay your enemy and break both his stamina and his durability with the ultimate goal of breaking his HP. We do this by playing RPS with each other. Now if you've ever played a game of RPS you'll understand that it's not entirely luck. But waiting for your opponent to make his move is also highly unfair, especially if the move takes longer to perform. That's exactly what's going on here. Dbash takes too long, and so does Power Attack. If we shorten power attack, it's fine to keep the countering window the same. The devs can basically do anything with the timings. If it works already, it doesnt need fixing.
I'm struggling to understand you so I'll just reinforce my point and hopefully you'll get where I'm coming from; 1. Melee isn't "broken". 2. No race or races is/are "OP" in melee. 3. Any weapon can "clang" with another weapon, regardless of how fast it attacks. 4. Any weapon can "counter" another weapon, regardless of how fast it attacks. 5. Your claim that certain moves are "factually mispowered" is wrong. 6. A decent mobile ranged unit can still beat a dedicated melee player in melee, if they play well. I hope that makes sense. Don't flame me or call me an idiot, try getting better or playing as these so called "OP" races yourself so you can justify your opinion. I don't need to provide proof of what I can or can't do with the Klaw, I do it all the time in game. Ask any Klaw user.
And: Address recovery frames by better polishing transitions between all actions including attacks. Look at the Banshee for an example. Yes, it power attacks faster. Look what happens when you stop. It'll sit still for nearly a full second. That's almost if not its entire TTK from a bolter. Standardize Attack Speed, as slightly faster than what it is now. Characters should move slightly less directly forward unless they're sprint attacking. The ranges of certain weapons like the chain axe should probably be looked at. These are also different and feel wierd. Increase the speed of PA, keep it's interrupt window the same time - meaning it can be interrupted by a RMB almost all the way through. Decrease the duration of clangs and stuns and their transitions. Yes. That is what this thread needs.
Yeah...I mean that sounds good. But I seriously think you're overestimating reaction time humans need to play out an RPS system, compounded on ping/server lag. How bout we just speed up Dbash and clang recovery animations a little bit and see how that plays out. I'm also not really sure why you keep bringing up Banshees when they are doing JUST fine, despite their Heavy recovery animation(which really...I mean..they DID just do a giant spinning jump attack...).
I bring up Banshees because they exemplify the unpolished state of melee. Their flaws of a lack of flow ect. are the most obvious and when you see them, you'll notice them on other characters as well. Like melee attack speeds, it has not been evenly distributed among the what... 22 classes in the entire game? Yes. They can wreck face because for the most part, melee as a function, works. They also have a beat stick and a melee damage buff. And that's a (re)balance issue. What's just as important in this quasi beta-launch state is to do both. Balance melee, and finish its development.
